Pitcher's Legal Wind up Position

[HumblePie]

I'm posting this in FED, but I am wondering about both OBR and FED rule sets.

Pitcher a) has pivot foot on the rubber and his free foot free,  Or  b) has both feet on the rubber.  Ball is in his pitching hand and he never brings his hands together, and he goes into his motion.

OBR 5.07(a)(1)

When a pitcher holds the ball with both hands in front of his body, with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate and his other foot free, he will be considered in the wind up position.

 

My scenario seems to fall in the cracks.  If he DOES NOT hold the ball with both hands, and never brings his hands together until mid-motion, is he illegal?

Please answer for both rule sets or confirm there is no difference.

[BigBlue4u]

4 minutes ago, HumblePie said:

My scenario seems to fall in the cracks.  If he DOES NOT hold the ball with both hands, and never brings his hands together until mid-motion, is he illegal?

If the pitcher does not have the ball in both hands prior to delivery, it is an illegal pitch (with no runners) and a balk (with runners)

Pro

5.07 (1) and 5.07 (2)

High School

6-1-1-2 and 6-1-1-3

[Jimurray]

7 minutes ago, BigBlue4u said:

If the pitcher does not have the ball in both hands prior to delivery, it is an illegal pitch (with no runners) and a balk (with runners)

Pro

5.07 (1) and 5.07 (2)

High School

6-1-1-2 and 6-1-1-3

You would be wrong for Pro/OBR and literally over-umpiring for FED.

From the MLBUM:

"23. WINDUP POSITION
Rule 5.07(a)(1):
Pitchers assume the windup position in one of three ways: 
(1) Facing the batter, hands together, pivot foot in contact with the rubber,
other foot free. This is the “traditional” windup position. From this position(hands together), any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to
the batter commits the pitcher to pitch without interruption. 
(2) Facing the batter, hands apart (usually at the side), pivot foot in contact
with the rubber, other foot free. From this windup position, the pitcher goes directly into his delivery to the batter. If the pitcher uses this windup position (hands
at side), the first movement of his hands or arms or feet that is associated with his
delivery commits the pitcher to pitch. 
(3) Facing the batter, hands apart, pivot foot in contact with the rubber, other
foot free. From this position (hands apart), the pitcher receives the sign from the
catcher and then brings his hands together in a stationary position (“pause”)
before beginning the delivery. Once the pitcher’s hands are together, the pitcher is in
the “traditional” windup position. If a pitcher uses this windup position, the act of
bringing his arms up and positioning his hands in front of his body shall not be construed as the start of his actual delivery UNLESS some other action is initiated by
another part of his body simultaneously and is associated with the actual delivery.
Any of the three positions described above is considered a legal windup position, and from such windup position (regardless of whether the pitcher’s hands are
together or apart), the pitcher may: 
(1) deliver the ball to the batter, or 
(2) step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick off a runner, or 
(3) disengage the rubber by stepping back with his pivot foot first.
(Disengaging the rubber by stepping back with his free foot first is a balk when runners are on base regardless of whether the pitcher’s hands are together or apart.) 
From any of the three types of windup positions referred to in this section, the
pitcher may step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick off a runner (i.e., the
pitcher is not required first to step off). Although this is not frequently seen, it is
legal provided the pitcher does not make any motion associated with his delivery
to the batter before the pitcher throws to the base.Play: Bases loaded, pitcher in windup position. Before making any motion
associated with his delivery of the pitch to the batter, the pitcher turns, steps, and
throws to second (or to first or to third) in one continuous motion in an attempt to
pick off the runner. 
Ruling: Legal move. 
TO CLARIFY:
(1) If the pitcher’s hands are held together in front of his body in a stationary
position before the pitcher delivers to the batter, the preliminary action of bringing
his hands together is not interpreted as the start of the actual windup or delivery
to the batter. If, however, this preliminary action is accompanied by any other natural movement that is associated with the delivery to the batter, then the pitcher
is committed to pitch without altering or interrupting his delivery once such
motion is initiated. 
(2) If a pitcher does not assume a stationary, hands-together position prior to
initiating his actual delivery, any natural movement associated with the start of
their delivery commits the pitcher to pitch. From the windup position, the pitcher may not go into a set or stretch position—if he does so, it is a balk when runners are on base. 
In the windup position, the pitcher must have both feet squarely on the
ground.
In 2006, the Official Playing Rules Committee made a number of changes to
the Windup Position. Those changes took effect at the Major League level in 2007. 
The changes allow a pitcher to have only a portion of his pivot foot, rather
than the entire foot, in contact with the rubber. Furthermore, in the windup position, a pitcher is allowed to have his free foot at either side of the rubber, in front
of the rubber, on the rubber, or behind the rubber, and to step to either side of the
rubber—all of which are commonly accepted current practices. Previous editions
of the Official Baseball Rules prohibited this. 
Under the rules adopted in 2007, 
(a) Only a portion of the pitcher’s pivot foot must be in contact with the rubber (no longer “entire pivot foot”). This applies to both windup and set positions.
Under the new rules, pitchers may pitch “off the end” of the rubber, as long as any
part of the pivot foot is in contact with the rubber. 
(b) In the windup position, the pitcher’s free foot may be on the rubber, in
front of the rubber, to the side of the rubber, or behind the rubber. 
(c) In the windup position, the pitcher is permitted to step to the side during
his delivery (previously prohibited)."

[Jimurray]

@HumblePie wanted a FED cite so 2-28-3 will clear that up for him and @BigBlue4u. (b) would be legal.

"ART. 3 . . . Time of the pitch is when the pitcher has committed himself to delivering the pitch to the batter. For the windup position, the “time of the pitch” occurs when the pitcher, (a) first starts any movement of his arm(s) or leg(s) after stepping onto the pitcher’s plate with his hands already together in front of his body; (b) with both hands at his side, first starts any movement with both arms or leg(s) prior to the pitch; (c) with either hand in front of the body and the other hand at his side, after bringing his hands together, first starts any movement of his arm(s) or leg(s) prior to the pitch. For the set position, the “time of the pitch” occurs the instant the pitcher, after coming to a complete and discernible stop, starts any movement with arm(s) and/or leg(s) that commits him to pitch."

Fed does have a slight difference in TOP when both arms come together, even without any other motion to deliver. This is ignored by some of us.