WBC Question

[johneng]

I was at tonight's World Baseball Classic game in Toronto (Venezuela vs. USA) and there was a play, that when asked a hypothetical question, I wasn't too sure off. Situation:

2 outs, R3, 3-2.

Batter swings and misses at a ball that is in the dirt. He runs to first (dropped third strike) and the catcher tries to tag R3 coming home. He misses the tag and then throws to 1st for the out, but R3 crossed the plate before the ball got to 1st.

Could someone help me remeber this rule, it's been almost 5 months since I last looked at a rule book and umpired a game.

[widac]

The out at 1st is a force, no run.

[jim knight]

The out at first is not a force but run still does not count... runner did not reach 1st safely. I know it sounds picky but the BR is not forced to first.

Same call either way.

[softballcoach]

Wouldn't that be considered a fielder's choice since the F2 tried to get the R3 before the force?

[Mr Umpire]

Fielder's choice would only apply if BR made it to 1B and the defense recorded an out somewhere else such as F2 tagging out R3. Since he didn't, it becomes a F2-F3 putout. Doesn't matter if he tried for R3 first or not. If BR was safe, then it would be scored as a error on F2 thus just being an RBI(possibly) and still going against the batting average as an 0-1.

I am not an official scorer nor am I trying to be one. This is just my understanding of basic scoring procedures. I could easily be wrong.

[softballcoach]

Fielder's choice would only apply if BR made it to 1B and the defense recorded an out somewhere else such as F2 tagging out R3. Since he didn't, it becomes a F2-F3 putout. Doesn't matter if he tried for R3 first or not. If BR was safe, then it would be scored as a error on F2 thus just being an RBI(possibly) and still going against the batting average as an 0-1.

I am not an official scorer nor am I trying to be one. This is just my understanding of basic scoring procedures. I could easily be wrong.

Works for me, I'm not an offical scorer or even an umpire. I'm just a coach, but I try to read and understand the rules. If I don't understand a ruling, I don't rant and rave and be a rat coach, I'll calmly ask for time and ask the question. Ok, maybe one time I argued with an ump, but I knew I was right, after the game I showed him in the rule book he was wrong. Batter squared up for a bunt, pitch was high enough the catcher had to stand up to make the catch. Since the batter didn't pull the bat back (neither did she make an attempt on the pitch) the umpire called a strike. I asked him what the strike call was for and was informed she had to pull the bat back. I told him she didn't, if she didn't attempt at the pitch it was still a ball. I found the rule and showed it to him after the game. It wasn't a game changing call so I didn't protest the game.

[crazyaboutcoues]

If i'm not mistaken that bunt attempt rule was changed this year in federation. Now, even if you leave the bat still over the plate it is a strike.

2009 NFHS Softball rules changes:

2-8-2 The definition of a bunt attempt was changed to require the bat to be withdrawn in order to take a pitch.

Edited May 5, 2009 by crazyaboutcoues

[softballcoach]

If i'm not mistaken that bunt attempt rule was changed this year in federation. Now, even if you leave the bat still over the plate it is a strike.

2009 NFHS Softball rules changes:

2-8-2 The definition of a bunt attempt was changed to require the bat to be withdrawn in order to take a pitch.

We're still playing PONY softball, I'll have to keep that in mind though, thanks for the heads up!