Mechanics Question

[theedeuce]

BrianC14... Your quote "If Base Umpire does go out (should only go out on a trouble ball hit to R/C gap and toward the RF foul line) then UIC has runner all the way to 3B, and Base Umpire will make his catch/no catch call, then high tail it (in foul territory) to home plate."

I got that part but not sure if I follow... Assuming BU is in the A position, he should only run out on a short leash to take the catch/no catch call should it appear to be in question. The PU should instinctively take the touch at 1st and only 1st once he notices the BU turning out. Should the ball fall into the gap (no catch) there should be no reason why the BU cannot simply turn and cut towards the center of the diamond picking up the runners touch at 2nd. The BU has to do some hustling but the key is the BU staying on a short leash using a 2 man crew. In my view, the PU has no reason to cover the last runner to 3rd, otherwise; he can potentially create a bigger problem should there be a pass ball at 3rd and the BR breaks for home... now the PU is caught in a crossfire...

[Umpire in Chief]

With no one one and a trouble ball to right. When the BU goes out he releases all responsibility of the BR until a potential play at home.

By the book he is supposed to hustle back and take the play at the plate. Communication is key in letting the PU know if you will actually be there or not. Now I've never seen a BU actually make it back and be able to take the call.

[mstaylor]

Warren:

I've made it back but I have never actually had to make a call. By the token, If the BU doesn't make it back, the PU has to take the play at the plate too. I've never had to make this call either.

duece:

Once you go out from A, stay out. Don't ever try to come back into the infield and try to help out. All that you will get is a double call.

[BrianC14]

In a 2-man crew, there's no excuse for not being at the plate, ready for a play.

Now, the reality is, as you've turned away from the catch/no catch duty, you can start running in (foul territory) and read the play as you go. If it looks like B/R is going to get to 3B, then the wise umpire will finish the trip - - imagine what's going to happen on an overthrow at 3B...

I've successfully had this happen once - just once - but I can still recall how gratified the UIC was to turn and see me standing there (pulled hamstring and all) waiting for the play to come my way - and it did, though the throw was offline from the left fielder, who'd retrieved the overthrow.

I was pretty pumped up about it, too, and yes, as previously advised, I made sure to yell to my UIC "Jim, I'm at home!" I remember starting to yell that about 1/2 way down the line from 1B, when my hammy popped... but I made it ahead of the runner.

The thing is, you can't decide you might be needed at home while you're still 40 feet out into right field - you HAVE to turn around and make sure to start heading back (again - in FOUL territory) - so as to give yourself enough time to reach home before the play arrives. You don't want the UIC having to race that B/R to the plate, AND have to take the throw over a shoulder (or worse, in the back of the head!) Be ready!

Edited February 18, 2009 by BrianC14

[theedeuce]

Okay, so what I'm reading from this thread is once the BU (in the "A" position) turns his back and commits to the catch/no catch call, the UIC (by default) picks up the runner all the way to 3rd (including the touch at 2nd). The BU will anticipate a play at the plate and in "foul territory" break into a full tilt sprint to the plate. Yes, I have to agree that communication is paramount with this play and one better know how to read his partner...

I stand corrected... Thanks for your input...

[Umpire in Chief]

I stand corrected... Thanks for your input...

Don't look at it this way. I think we all either learned something or refreshed the situation in our mind and shaking off the rust.

Good thread.

[BrianC14]

Don't look at it this way. I think we all either learned something or refreshed the situation in our mind and shaking off the rust.

Good thread.

Oh, heck yeah! Don't sweat about "being corrected" - better to have gotten it clear in your mind in this forum than to have you and your partner staring at each other from 3B to 1B, and then watching a close play at the plate from 80 feet away, with neither of you in attendance to it.

That's what's so great about this forum, and thanks to Warren for making it possible.

I've got all-day scrimmages this coming Saturday, and I'm both excited to strap on the gear again and concerned about knocking the rust off.

[mstaylor]

Okay, so what I'm reading from this thread is once the BU (in the "A" position) turns his back and commits to the catch/no catch call, the UIC (by default) picks up the runner all the way to 3rd (including the touch at 2nd). The BU will anticipate a play at the plate and in "foul territory" break into a full tilt sprint to the plate. Yes, I have to agree that communication is paramount with this play and one better know how to read his partner...

I stand corrected... Thanks for your input...

The other part of the mechanic that hasn't been discussed is when the BU goes out, he can't release until the ball is under control. Once that happens then he makes his sprint to the plate. If a ball is in the outfield that isn't caught, it can still do wierd things. You could have a ball bounce into dead ball, be carried into dead ball or become lodged. Since the PU is now running around the bases, this will be your call. If staying on a bouncing ball makes you late to the plate, then the PU has to take the runner home. Do not yell you have home until you are less than halfway between first and home.

[okump96]

MS, i've always been taught when the ball is released back to the infield then BU is to release and haul butt to the plate.

[BrianC14]

The other part of the mechanic that hasn't been discussed is when the BU goes out, he can't release until the ball is under control. Once that happens then he makes his sprint to the plate. If a ball is in the outfield that isn't caught, it can still do wierd things. You could have a ball bounce into dead ball, be carried into dead ball or become lodged. Since the PU is now running around the bases, this will be your call. If staying on a bouncing ball makes you late to the plate, then the PU has to take the runner home. Do not yell you have home until you are less than halfway between first and home.

There's no reason you couldn't turn and start back as soon as the ball is down. You can always turn to look back to see if the fielder (likely going to be F9) boots the ball or throws it out of play, which would be pretty weird, since he's likely to be throwing it toward 2B or 3B by this time. If the ball sails through the infield toward 3B and goes out of play, the plate umpire has that call anyway and now you can relax because the ball is dead and it's time for base awards.

[mstaylor]

okump96:

You are correct. I am saying you don't release until the fielder has control, if he is throwing it in, he obviously has control.

Brian:

If you release when the ball is down, you are too early. You have to make sure it doesn't bounce out of play or become lodged in the fence. If you aren't there to make that call, who is? The PU is watching the runner so the BU has to take the ball. Now once the fielder has the ball, go ahead and release and hustle for the plate. The PU will take the ball from there on, including an out of play ball.

Whenever you go out, stay with the ball, that becomes your primary responsibility.

[BrianC14]

okump96:

You are correct. I am saying you don't release until the fielder has control, if he is throwing it in, he obviously has control.

Brian:

If you release when the ball is down, you are too early. You have to make sure it doesn't bounce out of play or become lodged in the fence. If you aren't there to make that call, who is? The PU is watching the runner so the BU has to take the ball. Now once the fielder has the ball, go ahead and release and hustle for the plate. The PU will take the ball from there on, including an out of play ball.

Whenever you go out, stay with the ball, that becomes your primary responsibility.

Agreed. When I said, 'ball is down', I mean that there's nothing unusual that could happen to it, other than being thrown in.

[PeteBooth]

Two man system- batter hits a triple to right center.....who is going to cover third?

One thing that is missing from the conversation so far is this

Once the BU turns his back that's my key as PU that I now have the bases.

That makes it simple and is covered in Pre-game. In other words No Guess work. BU in A turns back then PU has the bases Plain and simple to remember especially working with someone for the first /second time.

In the REAL World unless the play is very strange, the PU takes the runner into second base and then the play ends so it's no big deal.

In addition to the catch / no catch the BU (in "A") has the Fair / Foul call on a line shot right over the first base bag or a fly ball right near the RF line (assuming the field has lines)

NOTE: From my experience if the field has no lines marking DBT, the PU simply takes ALL fair / Foul as best he can. Any complaints - "Skip we are not the grounds crew so in the future mark the field"

If you have a relatively fast runner, it's almost impossible for the BU to get back into proper position to make a call at second base once he turns his back because the runner is now ahead of you and the one of the cardinal rules of umpiring is not to make call on the run or from behind.

Pete Booth