Drop Dead Rules

[treydawgmt]

A perfect example today of why drop dead rules are some of the dumbest (if not dumbest) rules in existence.

 

Doing a softball DH for an in house league as a favor for a guy on the department.  (I actually had fun.)  There is a 1:45 minute drop dead rule for this tournament.  All of this info is second hand, but from MANY people (the tourney is in the town I live in and I know a lot of the participants).

 

Team A is HT and #1 seed.  Team B is from out of town.  I think the 5th inning team B is winning and there are 16 minutes left in the game.  Team B is HT.  Team B coach instructs her players to get strikes as quickly as possible so they can finish this inning.  They are swinging at things on the ground, in the air, etc...  The plan is to be winning with like 10 minutes left and then stop in the middle of the top of the 6th.  Team A takes offense to this.  Umpire isn't really doing anything to quell other than telling Team A's coach to control her parents.  At some point Team A hits a batter with a pitch.  Possibly intentional, possibly not.  Umpire does nothing.  All Hell beaks loose.  I'm talking w/another umpire on a different field.  25 minute delay total, UIC is involved, eventual outcome is pitcher is ejected, Team A winds up winning and my game 2 starts 50 minutes late.

 

Had we had a simple no NEW INNING rule instead of that asinine drop dead rule none of this would have occurred.

 

I had fun, all teams on my field were very respectful and had a great time.  I did catch some flack for enforcing the chin strap required rule, but otherwise heard nothing and a few of the parents from the fire department that I know said I had probably their best zone this year and hustled more than most and trust me, they'd have told me if I was horse crap.

[LMSANS]

1:45 for softball? That's insane. I've never worked a tournament with more than 1:15. No new.<br /><br />Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk<br /><br />

[treydawgmt]

This was HS level ball, 7 inning games, rules initially said 2 hours drop dead, but tourney people on day one made a decision to make it 1:45.  Neither of mine went past 1:20 I don't think.

[Rich Ives]

A perfect example today of why drop dead rules are some of the dumbest (if not dumbest) rules in existence.

 

Doing a softball DH for an in house league as a favor for a guy on the department.  (I actually had fun.)  There is a 1:45 minute drop dead rule for this tournament.  All of this info is second hand, but from MANY people (the tourney is in the town I live in and I know a lot of the participants).

 

Team A is HT and #1 seed.  Team B is from out of town.  I think the 5th inning team B is winning and there are 16 minutes left in the game.  Team B is HT.  Team B coach instructs her players to get strikes as quickly as possible so they can finish this inning.  They are swinging at things on the ground, in the air, etc...  The plan is to be winning with like 10 minutes left and then stop in the middle of the top of the 6th.  Team A takes offense to this.  Umpire isn't really doing anything to quell other than telling Team A's coach to control her parents.  At some point Team A hits a batter with a pitch.  Possibly intentional, possibly not.  Umpire does nothing.  All Hell beaks loose.  I'm talking w/another umpire on a different field.  25 minute delay total, UIC is involved, eventual outcome is pitcher is ejected, Team A winds up winning and my game 2 starts 50 minutes late.

 

Had we had a simple no NEW INNING rule instead of that asinine drop dead rule none of this would have occurred.

 

I had fun, all teams on my field were very respectful and had a great time.  I did catch some flack for enforcing the chin strap required rule, but otherwise heard nothing and a few of the parents from the fire department that I know said I had probably their best zone this year and hustled more than most and trust me, they'd have told me if I was horse crap.

 

 

If ahead you do delays in a no new inning rule game also. If behind you do speed-up things.

 

Time limits create the problem - doesn't matter what type.

[treydawgmt]

If ahead you do delays in a no new inning rule game also. If behind you do speed-up things.

 

Time limits create the problem - doesn't matter what type.

 

 

This is true.  But in the very few drop dead limit's I've done, there are way bigger problems than in no new inning games.  At least my personal experience.

[BigUmpire]

If you have managed a tournament, and have got behind these rules CAN keep you on schedule IF you have been saddled with a back to back to back bracket.

[MB_Ump]

Many of the tournaments here use both with the drop dead usually being about 10 minutes after the no new.

[SoCal Lurker]

A perfect example today of why drop dead rules are some of the dumbest (if not dumbest) rules in existence.

 

Doing a softball DH for an in house league as a favor for a guy on the department.  (I actually had fun.)  There is a 1:45 minute drop dead rule for this tournament.  All of this info is second hand, but from MANY people (the tourney is in the town I live in and I know a lot of the participants).

 

Team A is HT and #1 seed.  Team B is from out of town.  I think the 5th inning team B is winning and there are 16 minutes left in the game.  Team B is HT.  Team B coach instructs her players to get strikes as quickly as possible so they can finish this inning.  They are swinging at things on the ground, in the air, etc...  The plan is to be winning with like 10 minutes left and then stop in the middle of the top of the 6th.  Team A takes offense to this.  Umpire isn't really doing anything to quell other than telling Team A's coach to control her parents.  At some point Team A hits a batter with a pitch.  Possibly intentional, possibly not.  Umpire does nothing.  All Hell beaks loose.  I'm talking w/another umpire on a different field.  25 minute delay total, UIC is involved, eventual outcome is pitcher is ejected, Team A winds up winning and my game 2 starts 50 minutes late.

 

Had we had a simple no NEW INNING rule instead of that asinine drop dead rule none of this would have occurred.

 

I had fun, all teams on my field were very respectful and had a great time.  I did catch some flack for enforcing the chin strap required rule, but otherwise heard nothing and a few of the parents from the fire department that I know said I had probably their best zone this year and hustled more than most and trust me, they'd have told me if I was horse crap.

 

You completely lost me . . . if team B is ahead, why don't they want to just extend their inning to use up the time so A doesn't even get to bat again?  Did they take the lead that inning so that the score would revert if team A didn't get to use their full three outs in the bottom of the inning?

[treydawgmt]

Correct - they took the lead that inning.  If team A didn't get a full bottom half (I just realized I said Team B was HT not VT.  I meant VT) score would revert to previous inning, and team B would lose.  So they wanted to get off the field quickly and then have a quick bottom half.

[Scotth220]

Trey,

 

I was the other UMP you were talking to on the other field.  That game was a trainwreck.  I found out there was already bad blood between those two coaches before that game even started.

[MPLSMatt]

I'm usually the one of the harshest critics of bush league tactics in youth ball, but honestly, I'm not sure what the problem is here.   If team B had already scored enough runs to fairly take the lead, it's not in any way unfair for them to give themselves up to allow the other team to bat.  In fact, if they are going to insist on a drop dead rule, a team ought to have the right to forfeit their remaining time at bat (or just call the next 2 batters out).  I understand getting worked up about stall tactics or attempts to end a game after being 10 runned so as to catch a team not playing everyone or other such garbage, but it doesn't sound like Team B is being unsporting in any way in this situation.  If you don't like it, Team A either 1) score some runs in the bottom half or 2) stay at bat long enough for the clock to expire (by getting on base not by stalling).  

[afaber12]

The rec leagues I have played/scored/umpired had what we called a "batter in the box" rule, but sounds like the same thing: when time's up the game's over unless partway through an at bat, in which case that at bat is finished (or inning ended with a pick off) and game over, with rules for the score to revert back to the last completed inning in certain cases.

 

I saw two versions of trying to get out quickly when the visiting team went ahead but needed to get the other guys out to secure the win (both from the same team). The first version, with 1 out by the time they decided to do it they had the next two guys bunt with a foot on the plate, so guaranteed 1-pitch outs. The other one was similar but with a bit more time in the game, and apparently a crafty opposing manager. The instruction went to the batters to intentionally swing and miss at three pitches: get out as quickly as you can without being too obvious about it, so the other team may not realise they should slow the game down.

 

Both those leagues now have a 10-min rule: games are nominally 2 hours, no new inning started with 10 min to go, but once you're in that 10 min window you treat it as though you're in the 9th inning (with no extra innings). That only applies in regular season games though, postseason have either 9 or 7 innings games (based on the grade being played) with no time limit.