Protests and Ejections

[mstaylor]

I was reading a couple of threads on another board and a recurring theme came up. What started me thinking was an umpire insisting on a fully geared kid to warm the pitcher instead of just a mask, dangler and glove. When questioned he threatened ejection. Another was about an umpire got drilled by a foul ball in the mask and mistakenly walked the batter on four pitches. When questioned he threatened ejection. Both involved reasoned discussions, not screaming out of control coaches.

My point is I hear about guys doing things that are flat wrong but won't entertain any discussion and jump staight to ejecting. As umpires we have to understand we will make mistakes and we will blow calls. Other times we will make billiant, well timed correct calls. No matter which it is the manager may not agree and want to come out and discuss it. If it isn't appropriate or he comes out with a head of steam, the discussion should be brief and the manager returned to the dugout or excused to leave early. There are times that he is genuinely confused or it is simply a situation that requires his presence. In that those cases we need to hold the discussion without catching an attitude. There are times that the manager wants to protest, fine, take it. Even if it isn't a situation that is protestable, take the protest. Try to explain it, discuss it with your partner but if they want to lodge the protest, take it. There is no reason for us to take offense at being questioned. Many times I will ask the coach if he would like to protest. I can think of no reason we would ever threaten an ejection for a properly requested protest.

[gejoe00]

I was reading a couple of threads on another board and a recurring theme came up. What started me thinking was an umpire insisting on a fully geared kid to warm the pitcher instead of just a mask, dangler and glove. When questioned he threatened ejection. Another was about an umpire got drilled by a foul ball in the mask and mistakenly walked the batter on four pitches. When questioned he threatened ejection. Both involved reasoned discussions, not screaming out of control coaches.

My point is I hear about guys doing things that are flat wrong but won't entertain any discussion and jump staight to ejecting. As umpires we have to understand we will make mistakes and we will blow calls. Other times we will make billiant, well timed correct calls. No matter which it is the manager may not agree and want to come out and discuss it. If it isn't appropriate or he comes out with a head of steam, the discussion should be brief and the manager returned to the dugout or excused to leave early. There are times that he is genuinely confused or it is simply a situation that requires his presence. In that those cases we need to hold the discussion without catching an attitude. There are times that the manager wants to protest, fine, take it. Even if it isn't a situation that is protestable, take the protest. Try to explain it, discuss it with your partner but if they want to lodge the protest, take it. There is no reason for us to take offense at being questioned. Many times I will ask the coach if he would like to protest. I can think of no reason we would ever threaten an ejection for a properly requested protest.

I agree...... We have to admit our mistakes and move on.......we are human, and once the coach sees that you are willing to accept that he can count on you to be reasonable when he starts to blow his cool, and when he finishes you can explain what you saw and how you ruled. Now, there are the others who won't take the the explanation and want to blow off steam. Fine, tell them you have to get the ball back in play and they are delaying the game, IF they don't take the hint, then its time to eject. The one thing you don't want to do is to "LOSE YOUR COOL".

[mstaylor]

I know guys that take it as a personal affront if a coach questions anything. As a result many times their explanation is less than good because the presentation is not good. Other times it's guys that have no idea about what they are doing but insist on ruling with an iron fist. Both are wrong and should not be tolerated.

[JaxRolo]

You have to remember that we are dealing with people normally at the end of a day. You just don't know what kind of day that coach had. He might be going through a divorce, break-up.

Maybe his car got broken into. Could be anything that made him have a bad day.

Treat a coach with respect and most likely he will do the same.

We invite coaches to our association meetings and we get along well with most coaches. They also know the the above applies to us also. Maybe we had a bad day.

Respect is the key.

[Guest]

Oh boy...where to begin here?

First, let me join the club who is of the opinion that it is unacceptable for any umpire to be offended when a ruling is questioned. If a coach has a question about a ruling, you owe him an explanation. I'm leaving judgement calls out of this post's context completely.

Of course, variant on the level you are working, there is also an expected rules knowledge. For instance, if, in a 15U Tier 1 game, with R2, F6 cleanly fields a ground ball, throws to 1B right away, and airmails it OOP, and the coach wants to know why you score R2 and the BR is now standing on 2B, claiming it is only a one-base award, then you have a problem.

On the other hand, if someone more outrageous happens, then you will have to handle the situation a little bit more compassionately, because of the obscurity of the rule(s) in question. Now, it is absolutely critical to remember that coaches do not study the rules anywhere near as seriously as we do, not to mention that for you guys in the US, there are multiple rule codes with different rulings to account for. As such, if something even remotely obscure happens, realize that there are probably only two people in the park who know the proper ruling (if its less than that, you have a problem, LOL).

There are 4 types of managers / managerial reactions that you're going to have to deal with:

1) The flamethrower. Think Ozzie Guillen vs Angel Hernandez RE the 4th balk call of that crew of the year against Buerhle (apologies if I butchered his name). He is irate, hopping mad, he may or may not think he knows the right ruling but either way, he is insistent you are wrong. He may not be interested in anything but getting dumped and getting to try to eat your lunch in front of his players and the crowd. You have one, maybe two chances to dial him down. When he comes sprinting out to you, yelling at the top of his lungs, try to calm him down right away. Do not, under any circumstance, actually tell him to calm down - it will only set him off further. What you want to do is agree and / or sympathize with him but immediately counter with a hard stance backing yourself. What this would sound like may be "I understand that this doesn't seem right and I'd be upset if I was you too but that's the way this rule is written (or interpreted, if applicable). Let me explain why."

Psychology shows more than likely, he won't hear the second half of your sentence, because his excited brain will be too busy processing that, as it appears, you (the guy he is enraged with) just agreed with his argument. So, in a perfect world, he'll quiet and calm right down and you'll be able to explain yourself. If this happens, state your case and boom, problem solved.

Now, this may not work. If he keeps yelling, attempt 2 to calm him down is to get your back up just a little bit and go "Look, Jim, I'm standing right here, you don't need to yell." If that works, revert to just above...sympathize, then back yourself.

If this doesn't work, and he hasn't popped off with something to get himself ejected, you really only have one play left: match his intensity and go with something to the effect of "Look, what applies here is (for instance) 7.05g*. And the only way I'm going to be able to explain that to you is if you stop yelling long enough so I can actually put a sentence together!" IMO its best to just go right into your explanation at this point. If he doesn't like it, too bad.

If none of this works, and he still hasn't dropped a magic word, just walk away. Maybe he just wanted to blow off steam. But he sure isn't going to allow you to explain it, so don't lose your presence to the other 49 guys out there by continuing to be yelled at. If he follows, dump him.

2) The Mexican Jumping Bean. Think Gardenhire in Minnesota when Hirschbeck's crew blew the catch / no catch call. He is excited, probably going to get a little demonstrative in the argument, may or may not have the what he thinks is the correct ruling in mind, but all the same, he will let you make your case. What you can't allow to happen here is for the discussion to become a pissing contest. All that will amount to is him finally flying off the handle and getting run.

Take advantage of this and spin the tables on him. When he comes out stating his case, just wait and listen. When he's done, ask, "Jim, what's your understanding of rule 6.06c*?" Right away, this will give you an advantage because you have asked a question he probably doesn't know the answer to. If he doesn't know which rule it is, simplify it for him: "It applies to a batter interfering with the catcher while he's trying to make a play." Try to get him to tell you what he thinks of the rule though. When he's done, politely correct his ruling - "Actually, the way the rules committee wants this interpreted is..." Then, "Tell me how you saw the play." If you've done this correctly, he should talk himself right into the trap - perfectly describing the play, including the part necessary for applying the interpretation. If this doesn't happen, it's a simple rectification. "Well actually, in my judgement, I saw..." This is where you're likely to lose him, if he's going to be ejected here. But if you can make it through here, just tie it together. "Based on the interpretation, as soon as he stepped in front of the catcher and got hit in the shoulder with the throw, he's guilty of interference. Unfortunately, I've got to call him out for that."

3) Cool as a cucumber. Think Buddy Black in San Fran on the deflected ball. He thinks you're wrong, but is totally in control of himself, possibly because he's in shock of what he just saw. Keep this discussion as rule-based as you can. If I had a situation duplicated to the one that happened in San Francisco and read that I had a cucumber on legs coming to talk to me, here's what I'd do:

"Wow Bud, I can't believe that just happened. I mean, we have that ruling drilled into our head every off-season, it always shows up on our certification exam, but I've never even heard of that happening, let alone seen it! Unbelievable! What can I do for you?"

Right away, you've just casually asserted you are 100% right. What else is he supposed to say? Answer his questions with a calmness about you and you'll be set to resume in no time.

4) Rule-checker. Count yourself lucky if you get this. All he wants to do is make sure he knows why you just did what you did. He'll probably walk / trot out and ask a question IE "Two bases because he stepped off the rubber to throw over?"

A one-word answer, real complicated here..."Yep" or "Nope" and this guy will go away 95% of the time.

A few points in summation:

1) Arrogance can transform any of your 4 managers into a flamethrower. Be courteous and respectful the whole time, even if he's asking you why you're sending the batter to first after four balls in the dirt.

2) Play oddity and discussion civility are positively correlated to explanation length. In normal speak, the weirder the play that just happened and the calmer the manager you're discussing with, the longer you're going to explain it to him. Go back to the SF - SD game...Buddy was chatting with the umpires both before and after commercial, because the play was so obscure and he was so professional.

3) If you've had a very calm discussion but it does get to the point where he just won't leave after you've spelled it out numerous times, resort to a "Look: I've explained this to you as many times and as thoroughly as I'm going to. I appreciate the candour (respect, professionalism... whatever) on your part here, but we need to play ball now. I need you to please go back to your dugout." If he tries to keep it up, "Jim, dugout, please." Wait for half a second, then walk away. Unfortunately if he follows, you do need to dump him.

You'll notice whenever I "cited" a rule in my "explanation" I tossed an * next to it. That is because you need to be 150% sure you actually know the number you're about to throw at him is the right one. Otherwise, if he has a rulebook on the bench, and he flips to a rule and sees it pertains to batter's box dimensions when you just had a fly ball hit a bird and was then caught by the CF, I guarantee you the coach is not going to flip through the book looking for the right rule...instead, he's gonna go off like a time bomb. If you know it's in Section 7 but not sure where, leave it at that. "Jim, you'll find in section 7, specifically one of the subclauses stating a runner is out when...." If you know something applies to a subsection, but not the specific clause, go that far "If you look to one of the clauses of 7.05, you'll see...." And obviously, if you can throw the whole thing at him with complete confidence, by all means, go for it, but only if you're willing to be a lot..the stakes are higher the more specific you get. If you can pull it off, trust me, it works like a charm.

Finally, I would never invite a coach to protest. That is coaching him. I expect him to know his rights. It also leaves me with more paperwork, lost free time answering phone calls and e-mails, not to mention that in most cases, I am not confident in the rules knowledge of the protest committee (usually composed of coaches, or in some tournaments, a parent with a [completely useless] OBA constitution handbook).

[JaxRolo]

I dont think I would invite a coach to protest a game but that is one thing we do not have to worry about here in Florida. FHSSA does not allow protests as well as restrictions.

[mstaylor]

When I have explained to the coach all I am going to, I tell him it is time to play ball. If he wants to go around the horn again I ask him if wants to protest. Very, very rarely do they, but I give them the option. If they say no then I tell them it's time to play and I walk away. As I said before, many coaches are afraid to protest because they are afraid it will piss off the umpire. I figure somebody is going to learn something. If I'm wrong, I learn; if the coach is wrong, he learns something, no down side. In 35 years I definitely remember being protested once, maybe twice. Both times I was protested was in LL, once formally at States that went to Williamsport, once to the ADA behind the fence. The funny thing was the ADA was a horrible rules person and I had explained to her before the game the very rule he questioned. I find it is a great way to finish a conversation that is going to go nowhere. Ask him if he wants to protest, No? OK, lets go. He has finished the conversation himself.

[yawetag]

I think Mike uses the "Do you want to protest?" as a clue to the manager that the argument is over.

[mstaylor]

I think Mike uses the "Do you want to protest?" as a clue to the manager that the argument is over.

I do but it is also asked in earnest. If he genuinely believe he is correct but I am not changing my mind the only recourse is if he protests. I ask so he knows he has the option without making me made. Like I said, very few take me up on my offer. First, most know my reputation for knowing the rules, second, they become less sure when push comes to shove.

[Dragon29]

While I agree w/all who say attitude, approachability and humility are critical when dealing with managers, I don't think I'd have the extended rules conversations ump_24 appears to be recommending in both his #s 1 & 2 above. Discuss/explain the rules? Yes. Go into (what appears to be) that level of detail, including a back-&-forth rules discussion? No.

Give him your interp; cite the rule or section if you like; let him have his say and then move on. If that means he protests (whether you offered it or not) that's fine. I agree w/Mike - someone's gonna learn something.

[plateumpire29]

Its really very simple. In a matter of rule interpretation, when the coach comes out, you explain the rule and, if he wants to extend the discussion, you tell him that if he's so sure you're wrong, play the game under protest. Granted, it won't work for high school since there are no protests, but in most summer leagues around here, they are allowed. Last summer, in a 13u game, I had a simple two base award on an overthrow during a rundown. The coach came out and wanted to filibuster it.That's when I told him to feel free to invest the $25 fee and protest it. If the protest doesn't go through, bye bye 25 bucks. The funniest part of the whole thing was I had a one base award on an overthrow from the rubber about an inning later and I could see him losing his mind on the bench. I grabbed his first base coach and explained the difference and told him to give his head coach a clue. I didn't hear another word about it so maybe they figured it out.

[zm1283]

Its really very simple. In a matter of rule interpretation, when the coach comes out, you explain the rule and, if he wants to extend the discussion, you tell him that if he's so sure you're wrong, play the game under protest. Granted, it won't work for high school since there are no protests, but in most summer leagues around here, they are allowed. Last summer, in a 13u game, I had a simple two base award on an overthrow during a rundown. The coach came out and wanted to filibuster it.That's when I told him to feel free to invest the $25 fee and protest it. If the protest doesn't go through, bye bye 25 bucks. The funniest part of the whole thing was I had a one base award on an overthrow from the rubber about an inning later and I could see him losing his mind on the bench. I grabbed his first base coach and explained the difference and told him to give his head coach a clue. I didn't hear another word about it so maybe they figured it out.

Some states, including this one, allow protests in high school games.

[JaxRolo]

Its really very simple. In a matter of rule interpretation, when the coach comes out, you explain the rule and, if he wants to extend the discussion, you tell him that if he's so sure you're wrong, play the game under protest. Granted, it won't work for high school since there are no protests, but in most summer leagues around here, they are allowed. Last summer, in a 13u game, I had a simple two base award on an overthrow during a rundown. The coach came out and wanted to filibuster it.That's when I told him to feel free to invest the $25 fee and protest it. If the protest doesn't go through, bye bye 25 bucks. The funniest part of the whole thing was I had a one base award on an overthrow from the rubber about an inning later and I could see him losing his mind on the bench. I grabbed his first base coach and explained the difference and told him to give his head coach a clue. I didn't hear another word about it so maybe they figured it out.

Some states, including this one, allow protests in high school games.

What state is it?

[mstaylor]

We allow them in MD, or at least in my part.