Coaches argument

[JaxRolo]

I was working a Summer HS tournament this weekend and had a RH pitcher step to first without stepping off first and throw. Perfectly legal. Coach comes arguing that he has to step off first and wants a balk.

You would think that at this level they would know better! :shakehead:

[Rich Ives]

I was working a Summer HS tournament this weekend and had a RH pitcher step to first without stepping off first and throw. Perfectly legal. Coach comes arguing that he has to step off first and wants a balk.

You would think that at this level they would know better!

It's a widely held belief - even by many newer umpires.

I'd bet if you're under 45 or so you've never seen a pitcher do that.

[Guest]

I was working a Summer HS tournament this weekend and had a RH pitcher step to first without stepping off first and throw. Perfectly legal. Coach comes arguing that he has to step off first and wants a balk.

You would think that at this level they would know better!

I'd bet if you're under 45 or so you've never seen a pitcher do that.

How much money of yours can I take?

[sdix00]

I was working a Summer HS tournament this weekend and had a RH pitcher step to first without stepping off first and throw. Perfectly legal. Coach comes arguing that he has to step off first and wants a balk.

You would think that at this level they would know better!

Which rule set? Which Pitching position?

IF FED -

From the Set, F1 does not need to step off.

From the Windup, F1 MUST step off.

IF OBR (Summer Legion, etc.) -

F1 can step to a base from either pitching position.

[JaxRolo]

I was working a Summer HS tournament this weekend and had a RH pitcher step to first without stepping off first and throw. Perfectly legal. Coach comes arguing that he has to step off first and wants a balk.

You would think that at this level they would know better!

Which rule set? Which Pitching position?

IF FED -

From the Set, F1 does not need to step off.

From the Windup, F1 MUST step off.

IF OBR (Summer Legion, etc.) -

F1 can step to a base from either pitching position.

HS Fed from the Set

[Rich Ives]

I was working a Summer HS tournament this weekend and had a RH pitcher step to first without stepping off first and throw. Perfectly legal. Coach comes arguing that he has to step off first and wants a balk.

You would think that at this level they would know better!

I'd bet if you're under 45 or so you've never seen a pitcher do that.

How much money of yours can I take?

You've seen a pitcher just step and throw? No jump/spin or jab step? I haven't seen that in decades.

[Mr Umpire]

I was working a Summer HS tournament this weekend and had a RH pitcher step to first without stepping off first and throw. Perfectly legal. Coach comes arguing that he has to step off first and wants a balk.

You would think that at this level they would know better!

I'd bet if you're under 45 or so you've never seen a pitcher do that.

How much money of yours can I take?

You've seen a pitcher just step and throw? No jump/spin or jab step? I haven't seen that in decades.

Here is a video of it though it is just practice. Some are practicing it still.

[persong]

When I coached, I did not even teach the kids that move. even though legal, because umpires always said it was a balk. UG..

[Guest]

I was working a Summer HS tournament this weekend and had a RH pitcher step to first without stepping off first and throw. Perfectly legal. Coach comes arguing that he has to step off first and wants a balk.

You would think that at this level they would know better!

I'd bet if you're under 45 or so you've never seen a pitcher do that.

How much money of yours can I take?

You've seen a pitcher just step and throw? No jump/spin or jab step? I haven't seen that in decades.

Honest to God, it happened Thursday night.

[mstaylor]

When I coached, I did not even teach the kids that move. even though legal, because umpires always said it was a balk. UG..

And then you protest. It is very explicit in 8.01a and b what a pitcher can do. It is conspicuously missing in 8.05. I taught all my pitchers at Pony to do it but they generally didn't because the "professional" pitching coaches don't teach it. They asked what to do if they got balked for it, if the umpire didn't know the rule. I told them I trained all the umpires and they better know it and if they didn't I would handle it.

[carolinablue]

I didn't know you could do it when I coached before but I learned you can. If I ever coach again I may teach my pitchers to do it with a R3, you could probably pick him off since he won't be expecting it and generally take huge leads when they see the pitcher in the windup. If they balk it, we will have to discuss it.

[Astrosdawg07]

If I ever coach again I may teach my pitchers to do it with a R3, you could probably pick him off since he won't be expecting it and generally take huge leads when they see the pitcher in the windup. If they balk it, we will have to discuss it.

With just a runner at 3rd? That would be a balk, either for not throwing or for throwing to an unoccupied base. Of course the unoccupied base would supersede the no throw is my understanding.

[Rich Ives]

If I ever coach again I may teach my pitchers to do it with a R3, you could probably pick him off since he won't be expecting it and generally take huge leads when they see the pitcher in the windup. If they balk it, we will have to discuss it.

With just a runner at 3rd? That would be a balk, either for not throwing or for throwing to an unoccupied base. Of course the unoccupied base would supersede the no throw is my understanding.

He's talking about a pick at 3B. What's a balk about it?

[Astrosdawg07]

I thought he was saying use this move with a fake to first. Misunderstanding.

[carolinablue]

I thought he was saying use this move with a fake to first. Misunderstanding.

No, I mean in LL with F1 in windup, just step to 3B and throw. The problem is someone may want to call a balk because you never see it. I bet it will work though.

[mstaylor]

Oh, I know it will work. I watched an ex AAA/major leaguer, pitcher no less, absolutely melt down when his runner got picked off. The PU stood his ground and allowed it. I was watching, walked to my truck and got my rulebook. I went in his dugout and showed him 8.01a. He read, watched the game, repeated about three times before he finallly said,"That's what it says but I'll be damned if I've ever seen it."