Does an illegal pitch/balk count as a pitch

[carolinablue]

Was doing a LL majors tournament game yesterday and had this come up. Pitcher starts delivery and then stops before delivering pitch. BU calls illegal pitch. DC askes if that counts as a pitch towards his count. I couldn't think of a reference that answered that so I asked BU. He said it did, so we counted it.

It seems like a minor thing, but I can see how in the right circumstances, one pitch more could make a difference in a close game. Maybe thier best pitcher gets to stay in and face the best batter ect.... before being removed.

I checked the book today and still couldn't find anything so I am asking you guys if it should count as a pitch.

[gixxershane]

I would say no because of the wording in the pitch count section "pitches delivered"

If you do count them in illegal pitch situation, do you count the strikes called on a batter for not taking his/her place in the box when said?

[catoblue]

When talking pitch count, if it's not delivered, then it's not counted.

If there is an illegal pitch, which IS delivered to HP, then it goes against F1's pitch count.

If, say, as in the OP, F1 starts, stops, then starts - and makes the pitch, then it would count against his eligibility.

[mstaylor]

It is as cato says, an illegal pitch that gets delivered gets added, no pitch, no count.

[carolinablue]

Thanks. That was my thinking but wasn't sure . I asked another veteran ump. the next day and he said it didn't count even if he threw the pitch. I think LL may need a clearer rule on this. I'm sure it has come up somewhere else before.

[mstaylor]

It does count if it is thrown. I will investigate and see if I can't find the ruling that was made.

Edited June 30, 2009 by mstaylor

[catoblue]

I interpret it this way simply due to the reasoning for having a pitch count in the first place - "Protecting Young Arms" (the title of the booklet LL published when they changed the pitching rules from innings pitched to pitch count).

A pitch thrown, legal or illegal, is a pitch thrown, and should be counted. There may be something in the RIM - I'll have to take a look.

[catoblue]

8.02( kind of leads me in the right direction, where it states:

or commit an illegal pitch for the purpose of not pitching to the batter (i.e. intentional walk, etc).

and the instructors comments say:

“………..or commit an illegal pitch for the purpose of not pitching to the batter (i.e. intentional walk, etc)”, was added to prevent managers from instructing their pitchers to just drop the ball or start and stop their motion to get the umpire to call an illegal pitch four times thus not requiring the pitcher to throw four pitches to give a batter an intentional walk. Warn the manager that he/she should stop the pitcher from doing this and send the manager home if the pitcher continues to try to beat the rules.

This all implies that an illegal pitch that is not delivered, is not counted.

[nolanadair]

It only counts as a pitch (in regards to the pitch count) if the ball is delivered to the plate.