how would you guys have called it?

[1YoungUmp]

Heres the situation: This was a 11-12yr old game. Runner on 3rd. Wild pitch by the pitcher so the Runner on 3rd takes off to try to steal home. Well it takes a nice bounce off the back stop so F2 grabbed it, set up infront of the plate and put the tag down so the runner would slide right into it. So the runner slid into it and hurt the catcher wrist. The catcher pulled his hand out of the glove immediatly after the tag was layed and the ball popped out while taking his hand out of the glove. I called him OUT. Well the coach tryed to argue that he dropped the ball. I said "i didnt see it that way, he had control while he was laying the tag."

So would you guys have called him safe?

One other thing, although the kid above layed the tag correctly, at this age i notice that alot of kids still try to tag runners that are sliding on the chest. If the ball beats the kid there do you call him safe or out?

[Mr Umpire]

Call it as you see it. And, I will not get into the "Neighborhood" play or "Phantom" tag conversation.

If you think he completed the tag and dropped it b/c of him taking his hand out, then you have an out. If the process of applying the tag knocked the ball out, then you have a safe. This is a HTBT situation.

As you describe it, it sounds like he had control of the ball throughout the applying of the tag. So, I would say out.

As for your "tag in the chest" play, if he tagged him before the runner got to the plate, call him out. If the foot touches HP first, call him safe. You are there. Call it as you see it. And, don't let what everyone thinks should be called dictate what you call.

[1YoungUmp]

Call it as you see it. And, I will not get into the "Neighborhood" play or "Phantom" tag conversation.

If you think he completed the tag and dropped it b/c of him taking his hand out, then you have an out. If the process of applying the tag knocked the ball out, then you have a safe. This is a HTBT situation.

As you describe it, it sounds like he had control of the ball throughout the applying of the tag. So, I would say out.

As for your "tag in the chest" play, if he tagged him before the runner got to the plate, call him out. If the foot touches HP first, call him safe. You are there. Call it as you see it. And, don't let what everyone thinks should be called dictate what you call.

Thanks for the answer. As for the "tag in the chest" play i was just wondering whether you guys give them the benefit of the doubt because the ball beat the runner there.

Trust me... you dont need to talk to me about in the neighborhood plays. As a player playing middle infield i think i only truly swiped the bag with my foot while turning double plays maybe a handful of times. lol

[mstaylor]

I agree, on a tag play he still has to tag him properly. The only time you would use a ball beat him theory is when it is at a base and you are by yourself and are doing the best you can from long distance. Even then if you clearly have a missed or late tag then call him safe.

[blindumpire99]

IMHO, 3 things have to happen on a tag...

1. the ball needs to arrive to the "tag applier". (fielder)

2. the ball must be properly controlled by said "tag applier" (fielder).

3. the tag must be applied to the affected "tagee"(runner) person by

aforementioned "tag applier" BEFORE said "tagee" touches particular base

in order to record the requested out from the "tag ruling judge" (ump) so

applied for.

Sounds purdy simple to me.. Phantom tag?? What's that, some game you

play on Halloween?

[1YoungUmp]

yea what is a phantom tag? I might call it something different

[ShinySideUp]

yea what is a phantom tag? I might call it something different

Phantom tag is when the F2 makes a beautiful throw to 2B to retire a stealing R1. F6, in perfect position, receives the throw, and tags the sliding R1 on the thigh, after R1's foot hits the base. Everyone in the park sees the throw, the catch, and the tag. Only the ump sees the tag is late.

At least, I think that's ONE example of the concept. Kind of like the neighborhood play, only with a tag on a player instead of a base.

Neither is very popular any more, since millions of home viewers will see the replay 1,246,543 times, from six angles, and with commentary by seven experts, if the ump gives the fielder the play.

[Dragon29]

ShinySideUp,

What you've described is not a 'phantom tag', it is a 'terrible call.'

A 'phantom tag' is an actual missed (not late) tag that 'looks' good and is called an out. My understanding is that it was usually called in a situation where an actual tag had the chance of injuring the runner or fielder.

It's either that, or it's just a 'terrible call.' :smachhead:

[therefump]

IMHO, 3 things have to happen on a tag...

Sounds purdy simple to me.. Phantom tag?? What's that, some game you

play on Halloween?

Sounds like Phantom Tag is something some Mom made up so her "Johnny" doesn't get hurt. The continued wusification of America.:smachhead:

[okump96]

a phantom tag is one where everyone "sees" the tag but it doesn't really happen. example: r2, fly ball to f9, r2 tags and tries for 3b, f9 makes the catch and throws a rocket to f5 who catches the ball and swipe tags towards r2, u3 calls r2 out but as u1 in "b" you se daylight between glove and r2.

[therefump]

I still thinks it's something Mommy made up for Little Johnnny.......