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NFHS: Initially Undiscovered (& Incorrectly Permitted) Illegal Substitute


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Posted

A head coach that lives in my neighborhood contacted me over the weekend about this scenario that happened during a game outside of our umpiring district (ie, I didn't know the crew):

Home team lineup includes: Smith as F2, batting 2nd.  Jones is DH batting 3rd for RF Evans. 

In the top of the inning, following multiple errors by Smith, Home HC makes a defensive substitution by declaring to the UIC "I'm killing the DH." and sends Jones in to catch (removing Smith from the field and Evans remaining in RF.)  No substitution is announced to Visitor HC (and no one realizes or objects) and the half inning eventually ends.

During the bottom of the inning, Smith's spot in the order is set to lead off, so Home team sends a new sub, Baker, to the plate to bat in the 2nd spot.  Former DH (and now F2) Jones is on deck, planning to bat in his correct 3rd spot in the order.  Visitor HC realizes the illegal swap and appeals to the umpire.

How would you fix this at this point?

To me, the "illegal" participant is Evans in RF (who should have come off the field when the DH Jones assumed a defensive position.)  Evans no longer has a "spot" as a participant in the lineup, which reverted to 9-man when the DH took the field.  Obviously, it is too late to reverse any actions that occurred in the previous half inning with the illegal defensive sub.

Would you declare Smith (or Baker?) OUT in the 2nd spot in the lineup and proceed to Jones batting with 1 Out? 

Or, permit Baker to bat with the understanding that he (or another new sub) will need to take the field defensively in the next inning, with RF Evans being declared illegal (and now restricted to the bench for the remainder of the game)??

Any reasoning where you would consider DH (now F2) Jones to be considered the illegal sub?

 

 

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Posted
4 hours ago, UAME said:

Or, permit Baker to bat with the understanding that he (or another new sub) will need to take the field defensively in the next inning, with RF Evans being declared illegal (and now restricted to the bench for the remainder of the game)??

 

 

This is probably where I would land. Too late for any penalty for R9 being on the field illegally.

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Posted

Wait.  If all he said was he's "killing the DH" then Jones (DH) came out, not Evans (F9).

Jones became the illegal sub when he came out on defense.

 

If he said, "I am killing the DH, Jones is going in for Evans," then Evans would be the illegal sub.

Posted
16 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Wait.  If all he said was he's "killing the DH" then Jones (DH) came out, not Evans (F9).

Jones became the illegal sub when he came out on defense.

 

If he said, "I am killing the DH, Jones is going in for Evans," then Evans would be the illegal sub.

In my neck of the woods killing the DH (position) can mean putting the player who was the DH on defense. Which means that the defensive player he was batting for can't be in the game. The other killing is defensive player in for DH which didn't happen in the OP.

Posted

It is semantics, so this is a lesson to communicate and be clear with things like this.

Like I said, if all you tell me is you are killing the DH, I am taking the DH out, not the RF.  The guy listed in the DH slot is the 10th player, not the defensive player.  (Yes, the defensive player is listed 10th on the line up, but this is administrative.)  You can't kill the defensive player.

If you tell me you are killing the DH and he is staying in for the RF, then I am taking the RF out and placing your DH in that spot. 

 

Kind of like when a coach tells me he wants to put in a pinch runner for his pitcher or catcher.  I don't assume it is a courtesy runner.  I may clarify, "A pinch runner?" but I don't assume it is a courtesy runner and I don't explain the difference.  Yes, I have had it happen more than once.

Posted

Sorry, obviously this is (at best) a secondhand retelling...

I don't know what the coach said, but I think it is safe to presume that the umpire knew the DH was entering the game on defense at catcher... it was the middle of a latter inning.

Regardless WHAT was said, the lineup was incorrectly administered.  Anyone can say it should/would never happen under their watch.

I was more curious as to HOW people would fix it, if it were brought to your attention in the offensive half of the inning as stated in the OP.

 

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