two steps forward with windup

[RBIbaseball]

I was at a high school scrimmage (on the sideline) and was watching a pitcher do the following during his delivery:

step sideways, pivot foot turn parallel to pitchers plate, small step forward landing on lead foot, then lifting his lead foot back up and stepping forward to deliver the pitch

I felt strongly it was an illegal pitch, but the other guy on the sideline with me said no (as long as they have a continuous motion blah blah). The two calling umpires didn't call anything either. One is a new guy, but the PU was a veteran and he said he thought it was illegal but wasn't 100% sure so he let it go.

Anyways, if illegal, what part of the rule book text makes it so? Is it simply "During delivery, he may lift his non-pivot foot in a step forward, a step sideways, or in a step backward and a step forward, but he shall not otherwise lift either foot.", stating that you only get ONE step forward?

[jimurrayalterego]

6 minutes ago, RBIbaseball said:

I was at a high school scrimmage (on the sideline) and was watching a pitcher do the following during his delivery:

step sideways, pivot foot turn parallel to pitchers plate, small step forward landing on lead foot, then lifting his lead foot back up and stepping forward to deliver the pitch

I felt strongly it was an illegal pitch, but the other guy on the sideline with me said no (as long as they have a continuous motion blah blah). The two calling umpires didn't call anything either. One is a new guy, but the PU was a veteran and he said he thought it was illegal but wasn't 100% sure so he let it go.

Anyways, if illegal, what part of the rule book text makes it so? Is it simply "During delivery, he may lift his non-pivot foot in a step forward, a step sideways, or in a step backward and a step forward, but he shall not otherwise lift either foot.", stating that you only get ONE step forward?

Sounds like a "toe tap" which MLB finally ruled illegal for Carl Edwards Jr. Subtle toe taps might get ignored.

[Velho]

 

1 hour ago, jimurrayalterego said:

Sounds like a "toe tap" which MLB finally ruled illegal for Carl Edwards Jr. Subtle toe taps might get ignored.

See articles and video here https://www.mlb.com/news/carl-edwards-jr-s-delivery-ruled-illegal-by-mlb

 

This just applies to free foot correct? Is lifting the pivot foot anything? 

Either exaggerated like Huston Street?

 

 

Or minimal like Sherzer?

[jimurrayalterego]

20 minutes ago, Velho said:

 

See articles and video here https://www.mlb.com/news/carl-edwards-jr-s-delivery-ruled-illegal-by-mlb

 

This just applies to free foot correct? Is lifting the pivot foot anything? 

Either exaggerated like Huston Street?

 

 

Or minimal like Sherzer?

Most pitchers that do not pitch sideways reset their pivot foot in transitioning to more sideways torso in their delivery. That involves violating two criteria in the rule that most of us ignore unless it gives an advantage of momentum or distance. The criteria exist to prohibit "running into the pitch" and getting closer to HP in their release with the pivot foot off the rubber and closer to HP. 

From 5.07(a) Comment...."The pitcher may not take a second step toward home plate with either foot or otherwise reset his pivot foot in his delivery of the pitch."

And 5.07(a)(1) ....."He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot."

Our NCAA umps might not be as lenient as they have Randy Bruns taking a more literal stance as to pitching.

[RBIbaseball]

22 hours ago, jimurrayalterego said:

Sounds like a "toe tap" which MLB finally ruled illegal for Carl Edwards Jr. Subtle toe taps might get ignored.

 

20 hours ago, jimurrayalterego said:

From 5.07(a) Comment...."The pitcher may not take a second step toward home plate with either foot or otherwise reset his pivot foot in his delivery of the pitch."

That's the comment I was remembering but didn't find initially. Thank you.

To be more clear, I wouldn't call it a toe tap. When I think toe tap, I think subtle and little weight distribution. This pitcher's free foot came in line with the plate (body sideways to the plate), he actually rocked a bit with his body distributing over 50% of his weight to front foot, rocked the weight back, then delivered. It was similar to Carl Edwards Jr article, although a bit more pronounced with putting weight on the foot and coming back up.

I'm not sure it's relevant, because I suppose both are illegal. However, he was not breaking the "spirit of the rule" in that he was gaining to additional distance to the plate. But, "The pitcher may not take a second step toward home plate" I think puts a fork in it.