Force play at home

[carolinablue]

Bases loaded. Batter hits ground ball on infield. Throw comes to the F2 who is touching the plate but R3 slides in before the throw, however his foot is high and comes in above the plate and he never touches it until after the catcher has the ball. What's the call?

I saw this in a college game last weekend and the call was out.

[UmpJM]

cb,

Sounds like an out to me.

If the runner were entirely past the plate at the time the F2 received the ball, I believe the proper call would be "SAFE!", even if the runner never touched the plate.

JM

[carolinablue]

cb,

Sounds like an out to me.

If the runner were entirely past the plate at the time the F2 received the ball, I believe the proper call would be "SAFE!", even if the runner never touched the plate.

JM

That's what I was getting at with the question. So if he doesn't pass the plate it's out on the force but if past, safe pending an appeal although on the play I saw he eventually touched the plate.

[jnazz]

I'd have to see the play, but I personally have the runner safe. I'm surprised he got away with calling him out doing that level of ball. My gut says this is similar to the high tag on an obvious out, no tag on a collison at home plate, etc.

[Rich Ives]

OUT!

Why would you think differently?

The "expected call" is a dying breed mostly due to video replays. Good riddance. It should never have been there in the first place.

[carolinablue]

OUT!

Why would you think differently?

The "expected call" is a dying breed mostly due to video replays. Good riddance. It should never have been there in the first place.

What I was thinking has nothing to do with the expected call. I was thinking once a runner reaches a base, he is assumed to have touched that base. In this play R3 would have been easily safe had he touched the plate but it appears his miss of the plate was why the umnpire called him out on the force. I thought the proper call should still be safe.

[UmpJM]

jnazz,

He hasn't "missed" it until he's "past" it.

JM

[Paperipper17]

2-29-3

"...when a runner advances past a base to which he is forced without touching it, the force play remains."

8-2-8

"A runner acquires the right to the proper unoccupied base if he touches it before he is out."

IMO, if you're going to make the force call based on when the runner passed into the space over the base or plate, that's going to make those bangers at first nearly impossible :cheers:

[jnazz]

OUT!

Why would you think differently?

The "expected call" is a dying breed mostly due to video replays. Good riddance. It should never have been there in the first place.

What I was thinking has nothing to do with the expected call. I was thinking once a runner reaches a base, he is assumed to have touched that base. In this play R3 would have been easily safe had he touched the plate but it appears his miss of the plate was why the umnpire called him out on the force. I thought the proper call should still be safe.

Yeah, I got you. Just like a play at first with BR missing first but beating the throw. We call him safe and then it's up to the defense to appeal.

I'm a little confused --- in the play you're describing did R3 completely slide past the plate without touching or was it just a high foot that missed the plate on the slide?

[carolinablue]

Yeah, I got you. Just like a play at first with BR missing first but beating the throw. We call him safe and then it's up to the defense to appeal.

I'm a little confused --- in the play you're describing did R3 completely slide past the plate without touching or was it just a high foot that missed the plate on the slide?

His foot was not past the plate ( just above ) when F2 caught the ball. His continuing slide caused him to touch the plate. JM cleared it up for me, he needed to be past the plate in order to be safe in that situation.

[wek29]

OUT!

Why would you think differently?

The "expected call" is a dying breed mostly due to video replays. Good riddance. It should never have been there in the first place.

What I was thinking has nothing to do with the expected call. I was thinking once a runner reaches a base, he is assumed to have touched that base. In this play R3 would have been easily safe had he touched the plate but it appears his miss of the plate was why the umnpire called him out on the force. I thought the proper call should still be safe.

Yeah, I got you. Just like a play at first with BR missing first but beating the throw. We call him safe and then it's up to the defense to appeal.

I'm a little confused --- in the play you're describing did R3 completely slide past the plate without touching or was it just a high foot that missed the plate on the slide?

So, I have to ask this for my own benefit. Why do we call a runner safe at 1st when they miss the base? I mean I do it, but I feel really dumb when they appeal and he's out. If I saw it, why didn't I just call it?

[sdix00]

What I was thinking has nothing to do with the expected call. I was thinking once a runner reaches a base, he is assumed to have touched that base. In this play R3 would have been easily safe had he touched the plate but it appears his miss of the plate was why the umnpire called him out on the force. I thought the proper call should still be safe.

Yeah, I got you. Just like a play at first with BR missing first but beating the throw. We call him safe and then it's up to the defense to appeal.

I'm a little confused --- in the play you're describing did R3 completely slide past the plate without touching or was it just a high foot that missed the plate on the slide?

So, I have to ask this for my own benefit. Why do we call a runner safe at 1st when they miss the base? I mean I do it, but I feel really dumb when they appeal and he's out. If I saw it, why didn't I just call it?

This is why:

MLBUM 2010

34. Interpretation of Rule 7.01: Appeal Plays: Approved Rulings

(12) Batter-runner hits a ground ball and beats the play at first

base but misses the bag.

Ruling: The proper mechanic is for the umpire to call the runner

safe, indicating he beat the play. If the defense appeals by tagging

the runner (or base) and appealing that the runner missed first base

before the runner returns to first base, the batter-runner would be declared

out. Note also Official Baseball Rule 7.08(k) Comment.

[wek29]

Thank you!

[Rich Ives]

OUT!

Why would you think differently?

The "expected call" is a dying breed mostly due to video replays. Good riddance. It should never have been there in the first place.

What I was thinking has nothing to do with the expected call. I was thinking once a runner reaches a base, he is assumed to have touched that base. In this play R3 would have been easily safe had he touched the plate but it appears his miss of the plate was why the umnpire called him out on the force. I thought the proper call should still be safe.

Yeah, I got you. Just like a play at first with BR missing first but beating the throw. We call him safe and then it's up to the defense to appeal.

I'm a little confused --- in the play you're describing did R3 completely slide past the plate without touching or was it just a high foot that missed the plate on the slide?

So, I have to ask this for my own benefit. Why do we call a runner safe at 1st when they miss the base? I mean I do it, but I feel really dumb when they appeal and he's out. If I saw it, why didn't I just call it?

Dix posted the MLBUM instructrion. The reason is really really really simple - it's a missed base and you have to appeal a missed base - 7.10.