Fielder Touches Ball While Fielder Is Out Of Play

[Sut'n Blue]

I can't find anything in the rule book.

OBR, R2, outfield "fence" is a broken down portable fence about two feet high in places. Batter hits ball that comes to a stop just inside the fence. F7, running toward ball, jumps over the fence, turns around, reaches over the fence, and picks up the ball. 

What's the call?

[grayhawk]

Unusual play, but it appears that the fielder carried the ball into dead ball territory. All runners advance two bases from the time the fielder picked up the ball.

[Rich Ives]

OK because the "falling in DBT" possibility only applies to a ball that was caught prior to falling.

[ElkOil]

2 hours ago, Sut'n Blue said:

I can't find anything in the rule book.

OBR, R2, outfield "fence" is a broken down portable fence about two feet high in places. Batter hits ball that comes to a stop just inside the fence. F7, running toward ball, jumps over the fence, turns around, reaches over the fence, and picks up the ball. 

What's the call?

Dead ball and award runners two bases for carrying the ball into DBT.

[Lindsay]

This used to be a live ball until 2016. A rules change after the 2015 season made it dead.

In 2014, we had a play in the Australian Baseball League that had to do with a fielder stepping across an "out of play" line with a live ball before throwing the ball back to the infield, keeping the ball live even though both of the fielder's feet were in DBT (Solution for ABL Case Play: Stepping Over the Line), demonstrating this play when it was still possible.

The 2015 version of Rule 5.09(a)(1) Comment (formerly 6.05(a) Comment) stated, in part, "Ball is in play, unless the fielder, after making a legal catch, falls into a dugout or other out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead."

The 2016-present version of Rule 5.09(a)(1) Comment added two key words: "Ball is in play, unless the fielder, after making a legal catch, steps or falls into a dugout or other out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead."

Similarly, play is dead if fielder picks up ball while in dead ball territory. Live otherwise.

[Sut'n Blue]

 

I don't see anywhere where it says 5.09(a)(1), which has to do with catches, applies to the situation in the OP. 

Assuming 5.09(a)(1) - which leads to a one base award - does apply, we could have these scenarios:

1. Runners on first and second, batter hits hard ground ball up right field line, speedy F9 gloves the ball and purposely leaps into the stands. Ball is dead and runners can only advance one base. 

2. Batted ball bouncing around the right field corner, F9 grabs the ball, realizes BR is just about to get to third so he jumps into the stands. BR may have had a shot at an ITP but as F9 jumped into the stands just before BR got to third, BR is awarded third and has to stay there.

3.  R1 with left handed batter with the shift on and only F5 between second and third. Passed ball and R1 is off, F2 realizes he doesn't have a good shot at nailing R1 at second, and since the shift is on and F5 is covering second, there's nobody to cover third so R1 will probably get third as well, F2 steps out of play before R1 touches second and R1 has to stay at second.

It just doesn't seem right that the defense can take away the offense's opportunity to run the bases by intentionally carrying the ball out of play.

 

[grayhawk]

44 minutes ago, Sut'n Blue said:

 

I don't see anywhere where it says 5.09(a)(1), which has to do with catches, applies to the situation in the OP. 

Assuming 5.09(a)(1) - which leads to a one base award - does apply, we could have these scenarios:

1. Runners on first and second, batter hits hard ground ball up right field line, speedy F9 gloves the ball and purposely leaps into the stands. Ball is dead and runners can only advance one base. 

2. Batted ball bouncing around the right field corner, F9 grabs the ball, realizes BR is just about to get to third so he jumps into the stands. BR may have had a shot at an ITP but as F9 jumped into the stands just before BR got to third, BR is awarded third and has to stay there.

3.  R1 with left handed batter with the shift on and only F5 between second and third. Passed ball and R1 is off, F2 realizes he doesn't have a good shot at nailing R1 at second, and since the shift is on and F5 is covering second, there's nobody to cover third so R1 will probably get third as well, F2 steps out of play before R1 touches second and R1 has to stay at second.

It just doesn't seem right that the defense can take away the offense's opportunity to run the bases by intentionally carrying the ball out of play.

 

They can't.  The "catch and carry" rule requires a catch.  Think about it.  If the fielder catches the ball, the runners must tag their base in order to advance.  It makes no sense to award two bases for carrying the ball into DBT because the offense's best outcome to the play would be all runners advancing one base.  So that's what they get when the fielder catches the ball and then carries it out of play.  Any other time a fielder carries or throws a ball into DBT, it's two bases from TOT.  The OP is the same - two bases from the time the fielder, who was standing with both feet in DBT, picked up the ball.

[Sut'n Blue]

20 hours ago, grayhawk said:

They can't.  The "catch and carry" rule requires a catch.  Think about it.  If the fielder catches the ball, the runners must tag their base in order to advance.  It makes no sense to award two bases for carrying the ball into DBT because the offense's best outcome to the play would be all runners advancing one base.  So that's what they get when the fielder catches the ball and then carries it out of play.  Any other time a fielder carries or throws a ball into DBT, it's two bases from TOT.  The OP is the same - two bases from the time the fielder, who was standing with both feet in DBT, picked up the ball.

 

Which is why I don't see that 5.09(a)(1) would have any bearing.

In the OP the ball never entered dead ball territory - the kid picked the ball up and flipped it to another fielder so the fielder who held the ball was in DBT but the ball was not.

[grayhawk]

 
Which is why I don't see that 5.09(a)(1) would have any bearing.
In the OP the ball never entered dead ball territory - the kid picked the ball up and flipped it to another fielder so the fielder who held the ball was in DBT but the ball was not.

If a fielder is standing in DBT with possession of the ball, then the ball is in DBT.