NEW Sitch- very debatable

[JohnnySpot]

I know the correct answer for the following situation but the ruling seems to violate other rules

Lemme know your thoughts and could you cite your reasoning with any publication

OBR

Bases loaded, two outs. As the first pitch to the next batter is delivered,

the pitcher balks. The batter hits the pitch into the right-center field gap for an apparent

double. All three runners score. The shortstop calls for the ball and appeals properly that R1

missed 2nd base. The umpire agrees. What is the proper ruling?

[UmpJM]

Johnny,

The R1 is out, the balk is disregarded, the runs are nullified and the half inning is over.

If any runner passes but fails to touch his advance base, he is considered as having reached it in determining whether the balk should be disregarded.

JM

[JohnnySpot]

OK...close this thread....nice job UmpJM

I know i've read that statement but i can't find it....where did you get it from?

Edited January 26, 2009 by JohnnySpot

[UmpJM]

Johnny,

8.05 Penalty, 2nd Approved Ruling.

JM

[JohnnySpot]

forget it...i got it......8.05 approved ruling

[MCLEOD36]

Yes..UMP JM nailed it......but in FED/HS, dead ball.......and only move runners.

[someoneinca]

JM,

If R3 scored before R1 missed second, would you allow the run to score since an appeal is not considered a force play?

According to my copy of LL rules, which I do not know how similar they are to OBR, states:

"A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made ... by a preceding runner who is declared out because that runner failed to touch one of the bases (appeal play)."

In this case R1 is a following runner, not a preceding runner so it seems to me that the run would be allowed to score if R3 had crossed the plate prior to R1 missing second.

Correct me if I am wrong though.

Edited February 22, 2009 by someoneinca
added a quotation mark

[UmpJM]

someoneinca,

If, at the time the runner misses a base, he is "forced" to the missed base, a subsequent proper appeal of the missed base is treated as a force.

LL rules are "very" similar to OBR rules - except for the red flag, of course.

JM

[someoneinca]

Thanks. I haven't had a chance to go back and read the book yet this year. I'm waiting for the 2009 book which I get at the end of the week.

[PeteBooth]

I know the correct answer for the following situation but the ruling seems to violate other rules

Lemme know your thoughts and could you cite your reasoning with any publication

OBR

Bases loaded, two outs. As the first pitch to the next batter is delivered,

the pitcher balks. The batter hits the pitch into the right-center field gap for an apparent

double. All three runners score. The shortstop calls for the ball and appeals properly that R1

missed 2nd base. The umpire agrees. What is the proper ruling?

First off the answer to your question is NOT very debatable. It is CLEAR.

Let's take things in order and is what you as an umpire should do.

1. We had a balk followed by a play - The proper OBR mechanic is to point to F1 and say "That's a balk"

NOTE: Do NOT SAY TIME. If you say TIME, the Play ends as it would if you were umpiring a game using HS (FED) rules.

Since the ball was hit we keep play alive. As others mentioned in OBR a balk is a delayed dead ball situation.

Next question?

2. Do we enforce the balk?

Answer - Depends

A. Did the BR reach first base on a hit, Error or BB.

Answer - Yes

B. Did ALL Other Runners advance at least one base

Answer - Yes

NOTE: A runner need not TOUCH a base. If he passes the base as in this case then he has TOUCHED it and it's up to the defense to appeal.

The answers in 1 and 2 are yes so we IGNORE the balk. (Rule 8.05)

3. R1 missed second base.

The defense properly appeals and the umpire records the out. (Rule 7.10)

3. Finally - How many runs score if any.

Now we need to look at the definition of a Force Play and also how a team scores.

The definition of a Force can be found in rule 2. R1 was Forced to go to second base because the batter became a runner.

Now we go to rule 4 and there you will find the answer that says No Runs score because the third out was the result of a force out.

In a nutshell take things in order and you find the ruling. As you can see there are SEVERAL rules involved in this play. The OBR rule-book is poorly written so I suggest you get supplemental materials such as the JR (Jaksa Roder Rules of professional baseball)

Pete Booth

[Ump29]

Beautiful answer !!!

[NFUA_44]

Pete,

I've been reading your posts at various sites for at least the last three years and have always enjoyed and learned an abundance from you, but I've gotta say this is a thing of pure beauty! I don't think I've ever seen a more detailed breakdown of the process to get to the proper ruling and I'm incredibly grateful you have provided it :angel4:

[Frank Rizzo]

NOTE: A runner need not TOUCH a base. If he passes the base as in this case then he has TOUCHED it and it's up to the defense to appeal.

So if he has passed 2nd base, is it still a force situation when they appeal the missed base?

[someoneinca]

Yes it is. It is regarded as a force out because R1 was forced when he missed second. Read Pete's earlier post.

...

3. Finally - How many runs score if any.

Now we need to look at the definition of a Force Play and also how a team scores.

The definition of a Force can be found in rule 2. R1 was Forced to go to second base because the batter became a runner.

Now we go to rule 4 and there you will find the answer that says No Runs score because the third out was the result of a force out.

[ShinySideUp]

First off the answer to your question is NOT very debatable. It is CLEAR.

Let's take things in order and is what you as an umpire should do.

<snip>

In a nutshell take things in order and you find the ruling. As you can see there are SEVERAL rules involved in this play. The OBR rule-book is poorly written so I suggest you get supplemental materials such as the JR (Jaksa Roder Rules of professional baseball)

Pete Booth

It's the long-awaited return of Bob Pariseau! Great answer!