Ejection...ALMOST

[AmackNH]

Here is the scenario...

Top of the 7th in BR game. F6 misplays a ground ball and it goes into left center. F6 then throws his glove into the ground and kicks it. I as PU wait for the play to end, call time and warn him about throwing equipment.\

Bottom of 7th same kid R3. Pop up to the screen so I go back with the play. This is a very deep backstop. R3 tags and comes home. I look up and my partner is still standing in "C' not even looking at the play. I bust in as best as I can and get straightlined to the tag (I was basically at 3BLE). Looked to me like the catcher blocked him and got the tag so I bang him. The kid jumps up and whips his helmet off. I immediately tell him to put his helmet back on and he does. I turn back to the field and as I do I hear a loud bang. My partner calls time and walks up to me and says "that kid you warned just threw his helmet across the dugout off the wall." I didnt see it, so i just grabbed the coach told him his player was milimeters from getting tossed and quickly got the third out to end the game.

On my way home I had the same feeling as the first time I saw a balk as the BU and didnt call it. I distinctly remember seeing it, my hands starting to come up but the milisecond of indecision and doubt stopping me. I think I should have run the kid. This is my first year and the first real episode I have seen that even approached and EJ. Thoughts?

BTW, I did have a conversation with the teenage Jr Umpire that was partner about leaving me hung out to dry on the play at the plate...

[mjr_2013]

Even if you didn't see it, warnings aren't per umpire... It is if you do it again, you're gone... I don't blame you for not wanting to kick him out, but I know someone once told me on here that it is better to eject and regret than not eject and regret.

Plus, throwing a helmet across the dugout is no small infraction... That is a safety AND sportsmanship ejection.

[Mr Umpire]

He should have been tossed as soon as the helmet hit the ground. He was protesting your call, not his misjudgment. Can't allow that to happen at any level. He'll learn real quick if he can't play anymore for a game or 2. If you rely on the coach, you won't get your point across. Many rec coaches are just there to provide adult supervision and will coward to appeasing playing time rather than give discipline. Don't count on them. Handle it yourself. This can lead to more doing it and now the next umpire will have to EJ him for it. But, he may think it is only that umpire who has the problem and the next may not since you didn't handle it with the same results.

If all are consistent with treatment, this kind of behavior will become less. Since you are questioning it, I think you know he should have gone as soon as you saw him do it. And, to let him do it in the dugout where your partner saw it. You started it being allowed and your partner continued it. He has to go when necessary. This was necessary.

[AmackNH]

Like I said...on the way home I was kicking myself. All I can I say is I have gotten the one "I should have done xyz" out of my rookie system.

[Guest]

Definitely should've dumped the runner on the play at the plate. Don't buy the "I'm just mad at myself" B-S

Good job following the catcher on the foul fly, however, unless the ball goes right to the screen and you need to be standing up against the thing to make the call, you need some situational awareness with R3, and position yourself so you can make both calls in the best position possible. Reason for that is, I have yet to see one mechanics manual that illustrates the need for a BU to cover home here (not saying a competent one shouldn't, just that the odds of 95% of BUs going, oh crap, I need to cover the dish is highly improbable).

In regards to F6 throwing, then kicking his glove, I wouldn't've have done what you did here. Granted, I am presuming older kids due to the "very deep backstop" part of the OP. How the situation should be handled does vary by age.

So in order for more feedback, just let us know how old these guys were.

[mstaylor]

Bang, have a nice day.

[AmackNH]

He was 15. There was a runner on third with a fly ball headed back to the screen where it starts on the 1b side. I went as deep as I did because I wanted to be in position to make sure the ball was in play when caught. The bu only responsibility I can see is watching the tag at third. Not saying there is a mechanic prescribed for this but it seems to me situational awareness would have him coming to the plate.

[AmackNH]

If you don't see it but your partner does and tells you without dumping him, do you do it?

[Mr Umpire]

If you don't see it but your partner does and tells you without dumping him, do you do it?

No. It is too late and your partner is throwing you under the bus at that point. It was his responsibility to handle it when it came up. You didn't see it so how do you know your partner saw it for sure. And, when you EJ him, what will you say to the coach? My partner told me he did it. That won't go well b/c now your partner is telling you who to EJ and who not to.

[AmackNH]

If you don't see it but your partner does and tells you without dumping him, do you do it?

No. It is too late and your partner is throwing you under the bus at that point. It was his responsibility to handle it when it came up. You didn't see it so how do you know your partner saw it for sure. And, when you EJ him, what will you say to the coach? My partner told me he did it. That won't go well b/c now your partner is telling you who to EJ and who not to.

This is why I didnt do it. Just to clarify as well, in the moment-at home plate he did not throw anything...he ripped his helmet off but it stayed in his hand and he said nothing. My thought was to keep him in the game so I quickly, firmly and loudly told him to get his helmet back on.

[mjr_2013]

If you don't see it but your partner does and tells you without dumping him, do you do it?

No. It is too late and your partner is throwing you under the bus at that point. It was his responsibility to handle it when it came up. You didn't see it so how do you know your partner saw it for sure. And, when you EJ him, what will you say to the coach? My partner told me he did it. That won't go well b/c now your partner is telling you who to EJ and who not to.

Hmmmmm... That's pushing it... At 15, you are your partner together can still call the manager out and tell him straight up, "Coach, #__ just threw his equipment again... You know I warned him earlier, and he just chucked his helmet against the wall... He is ejected, take care of him."... You don't even need to tell him it was your partner who saw it...

You obviously can't do this in any Pro ball, but at this level, you CANNOT allow a player to get away with that, ESPECIALLY after a warning.

[Mr Umpire]

If you don't see it but your partner does and tells you without dumping him, do you do it?

No. It is too late and your partner is throwing you under the bus at that point. It was his responsibility to handle it when it came up. You didn't see it so how do you know your partner saw it for sure. And, when you EJ him, what will you say to the coach? My partner told me he did it. That won't go well b/c now your partner is telling you who to EJ and who not to.

Hmmmmm... That's pushing it... At 15, you are your partner together can still call the manager out and tell him straight up, "Coach, #__ just threw his equipment again... You know I warned him earlier, and he just chucked his helmet against the wall... He is ejected, take care of him."... You don't even need to tell him it was your partner who saw it...

You obviously can't do this in any Pro ball, but at this level, you CANNOT allow a player to get away with that, ESPECIALLY after a warning.

Well, if it is obvious you didn't see it and the coach asks how you know HE is the one who did it, what will the answer be? And, it looks weaker for the umpire to be sending the coach over to handle his business. These are 15 y/o and nothing shows weakness quicker than sending someone else to do your dirty work. They can pick up on that very easily especially the one who is ejected now.

It sounds good coming from a coach saying "The umpire sent me over here to get you to leave." The answer back (and I'm sure you have heard this before) "Why can't he come over here and do it himself?" Once that is said, the umpire MAY lose control of others if they feel like following his lead. Again, these are 15 y/o and no telling which way they may go.

It is better for the umpire to handle the EJ directly. And, do it when it happens. And, the one who saw/heard the offense should be the one doing the EJ and do it in a timely manner. It looks better and will get a much better response than the other way.

[mjr_2013]

If you don't see it but your partner does and tells you without dumping him, do you do it?

No. It is too late and your partner is throwing you under the bus at that point. It was his responsibility to handle it when it came up. You didn't see it so how do you know your partner saw it for sure. And, when you EJ him, what will you say to the coach? My partner told me he did it. That won't go well b/c now your partner is telling you who to EJ and who not to.

Hmmmmm... That's pushing it... At 15, you are your partner together can still call the manager out and tell him straight up, "Coach, #__ just threw his equipment again... You know I warned him earlier, and he just chucked his helmet against the wall... He is ejected, take care of him."... You don't even need to tell him it was your partner who saw it...

You obviously can't do this in any Pro ball, but at this level, you CANNOT allow a player to get away with that, ESPECIALLY after a warning.

Well, if it is obvious you didn't see it and the coach asks how you know HE is the one who did it, what will the answer be? And, it looks weaker for the umpire to be sending the coach over to handle his business. These are 15 y/o and nothing shows weakness quicker than sending someone else to do your dirty work. They can pick up on that very easily especially the one who is ejected now.

It sounds good coming from a coach saying "The umpire sent me over here to get you to leave." The answer back (and I'm sure you have heard this before) "Why can't he come over here and do it himself?" Once that is said, the umpire MAY lose control of others if they feel like following his lead. Again, these are 15 y/o and no telling which way they may go.

It is better for the umpire to handle the EJ directly. And, do it when it happens. And, the one who saw/heard the offense should be the one doing the EJ and do it in a timely manner. It looks better and will get a much better response than the other way.

If you feel that it would be better to handle it directly, have you and your Jr. ump go over there and eject him... You can tell the coach if he argues that we saw him do it and your partner was confirming that it was in fact that player that had been warned... After it was confirmed, you ejected him... You can't let the inexpirience of a Jr. ump cause a player that chucks his helmet after a warning not to be ejected.

Speaking of him being a Jr. ump, why was a 16 y/o umping 15 y/o's? They could go to school together, and say that the player who threw the helmet was very intimidating to the umpire at school... It is a recipe for trouble...

[Mr Umpire]

If you feel that it would be better to handle it directly, have you and your Jr. ump go over there and eject him... You can tell the coach if he argues that we saw him do it and your partner was confirming that it was in fact that player that had been warned... After it was confirmed, you ejected him... You can't let the inexpirience of a Jr. ump cause a player that chucks his helmet after a warning not to be ejected.

Speaking of him being a Jr. ump, why was a 16 y/o umping 15 y/o's? They could go to school together, and say that the player who threw the helmet was very intimidating to the umpire at school... It is a recipe for trouble...

Well, I am there to support him. But, I am not there to do his business. Nor, lie to make it sound better if I say I saw something which I did not. And, no matter what, if the EJ doesn't come immediately, it looks bad. To the average parent/fan, it now looks like a witch hunt due to the time span it took for your partner to tell who did it. Now, it looks like the PU has a grievance with this kid after the complaint about the call came. And, he and his partner got together to talk about how they are going to handle the kid. It needs to be done immediately and by the one who ACTUALLY saw it.

I have never ejected anyone based on what someone else told me and never will. I don't trust their eyes or judgment of a situation. It is for me to decide if I am going to eject the person so I need to see the action myself.