1dumbquestion

​First day as F2? Maybe he is normally an F4,5,6? I would expect that in a 10u but not HS any level. 1

​1smartdude, we must be polar opposites. Your friend must have 1 year of experience 10 times over with an unwillingness to learn. I would bet any official with 2 years of true learning under his belt can see this is not BI. 1

​I fear change. Hell, I've been married to the same woman for almost 20 years and I can barely remember her name. 1

I'm ok with that. 1

I hope I'm not the only person who doesn't know what HBM stands for. Help a brother out? Because I'm a bit sexist and enjoy an attractive woman I assume its "Hot Babe Mom" I could be wrong but I don't care. I'm sticking with it. 1

I think it makes a subtle difference in how we are viewed by the coaches. Greeting them before the game when not in uniform reminds them that we are just regular people - not some ogres looking to hose them during the game. And greeting them in decent attire gives a good first impression (which you can never get back). Agree completely on all points. For most of us this is not an issue but I certainly have partners that show up straight from a construction site. If I were in "work" clothes I would rather change to my ump-attire (plug for Jim) if I had to meet with a coach pre-game than an interim set of business casual wear just to walk back to the car to change again. 1

If you daughters teacher dropped his pants in class and gave the same argument, would that fly? It was a serious question. There are guys that choose to wear speedos at the beach or at pools. Since this happens, do you avoid these public places? Is there a difference between a nylon speedo, and cotton boxer-briefs, or compression shorts? Look, if guys are nuding up in parking lots, then they need to stop doing it. Public nudity is not legal. I show up to the game with my undergarments already on, which means the most you will see prior to the game is me in a t-shirt and black leggings while I am putting on my poly wools. After the game, I change my shirt before taking off my leggings, and will discreetly take off my leggings and cup/jock and quickly put on a pair of shorts. So, at worst, someone who looks in a 5 second window, with just the right angle behind my car door will see me in a t-shirt and boxer briefs (which I do not remove until I get home) which is more clothing than a speedo. My point is that changing in the parking lot can be done discreetly and quickly and it shouldn't offend anyone that's not looking to be offended. I think there is a ton of validity to the notion that since almost every person now has a video camera in their pocket there is more potential then ever for problems to surface. It probably makes sense to take this issue to the board to see if they can press the issue with the schools. The problem for us here in Orange County is that we are talking about a huge number of schools to address this with. I suspect that it will take years to affect change. Guys that wear speedos to the beach aren't looking to harass me that's for sure. I'm in flyover country, we don't have beaches. I haven't seen a speedo since 1990 on an old European, and yes, trust me, it was so offensive that it offended a large portion of Las Vegas. Don't think about it, no need for all of us to have nightmares tonight. Now, Would I allow my teenage son to wear a speedo to the mall, to school, to a concert, to work? Hell to the no. That might fly in NYC or LA, but not here. Umpiring is a job, a profession. A profession mostly working with children (and they may not necessarily be from your area), even if you don't, most do. Your experience of wearing compression pants and having "quick change" isn't universal. I've seen a whole lot of tighty whities this year and for much longer than 6 seconds. From umpires from all over the country. My all time favorites, tighty whities, putting on a jock strap, then putting the cup in, all while eating a hot dog, taking their time to pull up the trousers, national tournament, middle of the main drive out and into the only parking lot for a ten plex with teams, coaches, parents, siblings, grandparents everywhere. This didn't happen once, or even twice. I was shocked no one called the director from the looks we got. Would you want your five year old daughter to walk by my partners like that? Would you want your wife or daughter treated like that at their place of employment? Would you want a man walking around in his underwear, affixing his junk, in front of her at her office? I can tell you that my father, an umpire, and my husband, a steel worker, were more than not thrilled. Now, what about the 12 or 14 year old boy partners with my partner. I see these kids working games all the time on YouTube, so it could happen. Many haven't yet learned the skills to deal that level of discomfort. That whole list of scenarios is an after school special waiting to happen. Just the words "position of authority" in that situation should give good grown men nightmares. Baseball isn't the only sport going on at the schools. Track, cross country, tennis, cheer leading (yes it's a sport!), golf. And trust me when I say, not all females will recognize that you're an umpire dressing out, and some won't care. You'll be the pervy old man taking his pants off in the parking lot. And there is always a few who will relish the over dramatic, tearfull, attention they would garner off of your misery. Decorum, professionalism, and respect are expected on the field, but the job extends to the cars. Pre-game/post-game discussions are part of the job, and they happen at the cars in most cases. Don't the fans, coaches, and especially the athletes deserve to be shown and see all those qualities exhibited off the field too? (and not always just one games worth) I think schools and tournaments should provide shelter for umpires. It would be protecting themselves also. CCTV is already in some major cities, which puts everyone at even greater risk. People today don't sue just an individual, nope, they go after every deep pocket they see. That means schools, districts, organizations, parks and recs, assigners and partners could all be on the chopping block. Our Association wants us to check in with the Coaches before the game. Usually 1 hour before game time. And they want us in Business Casual when we go out on the field to check in with the Coaches. There is one High School who offers us a changing facility at every game. Other than that, the only time we have a Facility to change in is during the playoffs. The tensions are a lot higher. @MidAmUmp I agree with you. I would love to have a changing facility for every game. I would also like to work only 2 man games during the season for all levels. Unfortunately it is not going to happen until someone gets offended and contacts CIF about us changing in the parking lots. As soon as that happens, maybe something will change. As it stands right now, all of the Schools are trying to make all sports Club sports. They will have no tie in to the school except the sports will have to rent the facilities from the schools. They think sports cost too much money. And the sports should be supported by the Booster Club entirely. If that happens, the major sports will survive. But a lot of sports wont. We shall see. If you daughters teacher dropped his pants in class and gave the same argument, would that fly? It was a serious question. There are guys that choose to wear speedos at the beach or at pools. Since this happens, do you avoid these public places? Is there a difference between a nylon speedo, and cotton boxer-briefs, or compression shorts? Look, if guys are nuding up in parking lots, then they need to stop doing it. Public nudity is not legal. I show up to the game with my undergarments already on, which means the most you will see prior to the game is me in a t-shirt and black leggings while I am putting on my poly wools. After the game, I change my shirt before taking off my leggings, and will discreetly take off my leggings and cup/jock and quickly put on a pair of shorts. So, at worst, someone who looks in a 5 second window, with just the right angle behind my car door will see me in a t-shirt and boxer briefs (which I do not remove until I get home) which is more clothing than a speedo. My point is that changing in the parking lot can be done discreetly and quickly and it shouldn't offend anyone that's not looking to be offended. I think there is a ton of validity to the notion that since almost every person now has a video camera in their pocket there is more potential then ever for problems to surface. It probably makes sense to take this issue to the board to see if they can press the issue with the schools. The problem for us here in Orange County is that we are talking about a huge number of schools to address this with. I suspect that it will take years to affect change. Guys that wear speedos to the beach aren't looking to harass me that's for sure. I'm in flyover country, we don't have beaches. I haven't seen a speedo since 1990 on an old European, and yes, trust me, it was so offensive that it offended a large portion of Las Vegas. Don't think about it, no need for all of us to have nightmares tonight. Now, Would I allow my teenage son to wear a speedo to the mall, to school, to a concert, to work? Hell to the no. That might fly in NYC or LA, but not here. Umpiring is a job, a profession. A profession mostly working with children (and they may not necessarily be from your area), even if you don't, most do. Your experience of wearing compression pants and having "quick change" isn't universal. I've seen a whole lot of tighty whities this year and for much longer than 6 seconds. From umpires from all over the country. My all time favorites, tighty whities, putting on a jock strap, then putting the cup in, all while eating a hot dog, taking their time to pull up the trousers, national tournament, middle of the main drive out and into the only parking lot for a ten plex with teams, coaches, parents, siblings, grandparents everywhere. This didn't happen once, or even twice. I was shocked no one called the director from the looks we got. Would you want your five year old daughter to walk by my partners like that? Would you want your wife or daughter treated like that at their place of employment? Would you want a man walking around in his underwear, affixing his junk, in front of her at her office? I can tell you that my father, an umpire, and my husband, a steel worker, were more than not thrilled. Now, what about the 12 or 14 year old boy partners with my partner. I see these kids working games all the time on YouTube, so it could happen. Many haven't yet learned the skills to deal that level of discomfort. That whole list of scenarios is an after school special waiting to happen. Just the words "position of authority" in that situation should give good grown men nightmares. Baseball isn't the only sport going on at the schools. Track, cross country, tennis, cheer leading (yes it's a sport!), golf. And trust me when I say, not all females will recognize that you're an umpire dressing out, and some won't care. You'll be the pervy old man taking his pants off in the parking lot. And there is always a few who will relish the over dramatic, tearfull, attention they would garner off of your misery. Decorum, professionalism, and respect are expected on the field, but the job extends to the cars. Pre-game/post-game discussions are part of the job, and they happen at the cars in most cases. Don't the fans, coaches, and especially the athletes deserve to be shown and see all those qualities exhibited off the field too? (and not always just one games worth) I think schools and tournaments should provide shelter for umpires. It would be protecting themselves also. CCTV is already in some major cities, which puts everyone at even greater risk. People today don't sue just an individual, nope, they go after every deep pocket they see. That means schools, districts, organizations, parks and recs, assigners and partners could all be on the chopping block. Our Association wants us to check in with the Coaches before the game. Usually 1 hour before game time. And they want us in Business Casual when we go out on the field to check in with the Coaches. There is one High School who offers us a changing facility at every game. Other than that, the only time we have a Facility to change in is during the playoffs. The tensions are a lot higher. @MidAmUmp I agree with you. I would love to have a changing facility for every game. I would also like to work only 2 man games during the season for all levels. Unfortunately it is not going to happen until someone gets offended and contacts CIF about us changing in the parking lots. As soon as that happens, maybe something will change. As it stands right now, all of the Schools are trying to make all sports Club sports. They will have no tie in to the school except the sports will have to rent the facilities from the schools. They think sports cost too much money. And the sports should be supported by the Booster Club entirely. If that happens, the major sports will survive. But a lot of sports wont. We shall see. So now we are changing twice in the parking lot for the same game? Not all the umps I know work in a business casual environment. 1

Where did all the "good mornings" go? SJA, we could use a new pic. 1

I get the feeling you didn't read through this entire thread or all of your questions would have been answered. I'm guessing RTFM means something like "read the f-ing manual"... just a guess. 1

True, a dead ball cannot be caught for an out. But ordinarily a foul ball is not dead until it touches the ground (or something other than a player). That hasn't happened here: I see that this has to be foul, but not that it's "immediately" dead. What part of 2.00 are you looking at? I agree that a foul ball hitting anything soft on F2 probably won't bounce up high enough. The scenario I'm envisioning, I guess, is a foul ball deflecting off F2's helmet up "high" (enough) in the air and subsequently caught. That would still be TWP, but more plausible. I'm not following the bolded section. If it is a foul then it is "dead", right? The last line of 2.00 ...unless it is a rebound... So by rule if sharp and direct to the catchers hand/glove FIRST then it can be caught for an out even if it bounces off F2's head 9 times but if mask/CP first then it cannot in any way be caught for an out. I think we are all in agreement on this but can't come together on why? maybe? 1 No - only an uncaught foul is dead. And in the current discussion the ball is uncaught by rule, and has been touched in foul ground so it's foul. I understand what you're saying but we (umpires) don't announce a foul until it can't be anything else. Prior to it becoming a foul or fair ball it is just a batted ball over or on foul or fair territory. I think we are all in agreement about this part of the topic. 1

Just so we understand each other, if the batted ball is not "sharp and direct" but does hit the catchers mask and is then caught we have an out. If B1 tried to bunt a slow breaking ball and it just popped up and off the F2's mask and then he caught it we've got an out if you don't judge it sharp and direct. 1

True, a dead ball cannot be caught for an out. But ordinarily a foul ball is not dead until it touches the ground (or something other than a player). That hasn't happened here: I see that this has to be foul, but not that it's "immediately" dead. What part of 2.00 are you looking at? I agree that a foul ball hitting anything soft on F2 probably won't bounce up high enough. The scenario I'm envisioning, I guess, is a foul ball deflecting off F2's helmet up "high" (enough) in the air and subsequently caught. That would still be TWP, but more plausible. I'm not following the bolded section. If it is a foul then it is "dead", right? The last line of 2.00 ...unless it is a rebound... So by rule if sharp and direct to the catchers hand/glove FIRST then it can be caught for an out even if it bounces off F2's head 9 times but if mask/CP first then it cannot in any way be caught for an out. I think we are all in agreement on this but can't come together on why? maybe? 1

Fair enough. My BRD is at home, and I'm not, so we'll go with what you posted. But there seems to be some sort of disconect here. Taking the "official interpretation" you posted at face value, saying that "a batted ball must rise above the batter's head to be caught for an out" is obviously not a true statement in relation to ALL batted balls hit anywhere on the field. Is the interpretation related only to balls fouled back toward the catcher and fielded over foul ground? Unless it is, then this interpretation make no sense. What is the context which the interpretation is being offered? What is your ruling if: 1) Batter swings and ball is barely tipped. The ball goes straight up, only as high as the batter's nose, then straight back down and is gloved by the catcher, over foul ground, before touching anything else. 2) Same scenario, but this time the ball is caught directly over top of home plate. out in both 1 & 2. Just my opinion as I have nothing with me at work to back it up but I think the whole "appreciable height" or over the batters head thing should be applied to a something like an IFF to differentiate it from a line drive. Or to simply identify it from another kind of batted ball. These "types" of batted balls do not come into play when judging a foul tip. 1

Nope. Once the ball hit the mask it became foul and cannot be caught for an out or become a foul tip (unless it hit the hand or glove prior to hitting the mask). 1 I agree that it becomes foul when touched (by F2) while over foul territory. I also agree that once the batted ball gets past F2's glove and hits his body, it can no longer be a foul tip. How does any of that entail that it cannot be caught? It sure seems like a batted ball in flight to me. One of us is missing something and I'm guessing it's me... a batted ball that goes directly to the F2's mask is a foul ball the moment it contacts the mask and cannot become anything else right? Then it can't be caught for an out can it? This wouldn't be the first time I totally misunderstood something. 1 Well, compare this play: ordinary pop foul down 3B line, comes down and hits F5 in the head, bounces straight up in the air, and F5 catches it in flight. Ruling? How is that different from your play, other than the fact that in your play F2 makes the catch? @roothog beat me to it. It would be an out if an F2 gave chase and then the same thing happened as in your F5 sitch but if "sharp and direct' it's always (hate saying that) going to be a foul tip or a foul ball, no other choices. 1

Nope. Once the ball hit the mask it became foul and cannot be caught for an out or become a foul tip (unless it hit the hand or glove prior to hitting the mask). 1 I agree that it becomes foul when touched (by F2) while over foul territory. I also agree that once the batted ball gets past F2's glove and hits his body, it can no longer be a foul tip. How does any of that entail that it cannot be caught? It sure seems like a batted ball in flight to me. One of us is missing something and I'm guessing it's me... a batted ball that goes directly to the F2's mask is a foul ball the moment it contacts the mask and cannot become anything else right? Then it can't be caught for an out can it? This wouldn't be the first time I totally misunderstood something. 1