Abandonment call

[VolUmp]

OK. Had this last night and I'm stumped.

 

MLB Rules.

R1 & R3.  1 out.

Batter hits soft fly to RF and it drops.

F9 plays it on one hop, fires to 2nd, and R1 is called out by force.

R1 slid into the bag, was not tagged, ... got up ... trotted back to the dugout.

R3 scored easily when he saw the ball drop.

B/R thought the fly ball was caught.  He trotted about 70 feet toward 1B and peeled off and walked to the dugout.

(He had no 1B coach, and just made a bad assumption.)

 

After I get sufficient feedback I'll explain how we ruled.

[spiffdawg7]

BR is out once he reaches the dugout.  No run scores since the 3rd out was made by the BR before reaching 1st base. 

[VolUmp]

Well, Spiff, that's close to how we ruled, and I used the term DESERTION, but I don't believe that term is in the OBR book.

We likened it to a runner who "deserts" his effort to run to 1B on a called 3rd (although in that case, he's out as soon as he leaves the dirt circle).

I don't believe in our case we had to wait until he reached the dugout.  We ruled like Abandonment ... that as soon as he clearly gave up his effort to reach first base, he deserted.

The point here is, it isn't a time play.  If he deserts, then the 3rd out is made before he reaches 1st regardless of when R3 crossed the plate.

Now ... you didn't mention what the justification is for calling the FORCE out at 2nd since the batter never touched 1B.

I ruled that in the case of desertion, the force remains.

Don't know where to find any of this in the OBR book because it doesn't use the word Desertion.  I believe that term is in one of the recognized manuals.

[MooseLoop]

12 hours ago, WildFlyer said:

Now ... you didn't mention what the justification is for calling the FORCE out at 2nd since the batter never touched 1B.

Don't know where to find any of this in the OBR book because it doesn't use the word Desertion.  I believe that term is in one of the recognized manuals.

See OBR Definition of Terms - Force Play:

A force is a force, of course, of course.

Until something happens to remove the force.

That is, of course, unless the force is the famous advantageous fourth out.

[Radie 88]

On May 20, 2016 at 1:57 PM, MooseLoop said:

See OBR Definition of Terms - Force Play:

A force is a force, of course, of course.

Until something happens to remove the force.

So are you saying that this is a timing play?

Lets tweak the scenario a bit... Let's say BR doesn't even leg out the fly ball and  immediately abandons/deserts, way before the throw comes into 2nd for the force... Is the force off?

Your use (and bold) of the word "until" makes me think it removes the force. 

Personally I think I'd have called it exactly as Wild did. 

[ALStripes17]

I'm sure as heck not giving the offense the benefit of the doubt here.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[MooseLoop]

18 hours ago, Radie said:

So are you saying that this is a timing play?

Lets tweak the scenario a bit... Let's say BR doesn't even leg out the fly ball and  immediately abandons/deserts, way before the throw comes into 2nd for the force... Is the force off?

Your use (and bold) of the word "until" makes me think it removes the force. 

Personally I think I'd have called it exactly as Wild did. 

My comment was directed to Wild's question of "what the justification is for calling the FORCE out at 2nd since the batter never touched 1B."  OBR's definition of "force play" covers that question thoroughly:

"A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner. (Force Play) Comment: Confusion regarding this play is removed by remembering that frequently the “force” situation is removed during the play."  

The examples in the comment make clear that once the BR is out, the force is removed.  The converse is that until the force is removed, the force play is still in effect.  It's not a time play in the usual meaning of that term, to determine whether a run scored before the third out is made.  But it does involve timing in the sense that if a fielder touches the forced-to base while in possession of the ball before the forced runner touches the base, the out stands even if the force is removed later in the play. 

As for the BR immediately abandoning/deserting before the force out, OBR 5.09(b)(2) and FED 8-4-2-p both require the BR to reach first base before he can be judged to have abandoned his baserunning responsibilities and ruled out.  We had a thread this past spring about batter desertion in which the conclusion that I drew was that the BR (except on a D3K) is not out even if he goes into the dugout unless he delays the game. Apparently Jaska/Roder has an interpretation that would allow you to get an out for a BR failing to run, but that seems at best to be a minority view.  The abandonment rules' specific prerequisite that the BR reach first base argues against that view. In your scenario, I would eventually say something like "that batter-runner is not out", maybe with a "that's nothing" mechanic.  And then await further action or non-action. I cannot imagine that R1 will not have reached second before BR would be out for delaying the game.

The last line of my post related to our then-recent discussion of force outs and advantageous fourth outs.  Please note that my comment was a parody, intended to be sung to the tune of the theme from the 60's TV show "Mr. Ed". Although I was not consciously aware of it at the time of my post, I must have felt a disturbance in the Force, because Alan Young, Mr. Ed's co-star, had passed on to that Great Pasture in the Sky the day before.  Here's a link to the theme song, but I must warn that it is an earworm; listen past the first verse at your peril.