Dropped Third Strike

[coachshook77]

Here's one from the Rookie. Give me you answers and let me know if I made the correct call.

Bases are loaded and the batter swings and misses a third strike. Catcher did not catch the ball and runner takes off for first base with only one out. I called batter out as catcher stands in attempt to throw the batter out as he runs toward first. As the ball is being thrown, R3 takes off for home. I ( assuming the runner did not know the rule) stepped forward and screamed 'batter is out' since he cannot advance. I ask runners to return to their previous base. Coach from the batting team came unglued and said he always has his batters run on dropped third strikes since he wants to advance runners. This was in a 12U, USSSA game. How bad did I blow this or was the offensive team trying to deceive the defense?

[Jocko]

Kicked it. Runners may attempt to advance any time during live ball. You were correct in calling the batter out. After that, let it play out. If runners advance, so be it. If you get an out......even better.

And don't "scream" anything. Ever. Call it with an authoritative voice. But don't explain it until action has ceased. This one sounds like it blew up on you. If I were OTHC I might get tossed on this one if I needed that run.

[BigUmpire]

Here's one from the Rookie. Give me you answers and let me know if I made the correct call.

Bases are loaded and the batter swings and misses a third strike. Catcher did not catch the ball and runner takes off for first base with only one out. I called batter out as catcher stands in attempt to throw the batter out as he runs toward first. As the ball is being thrown, R3 takes off for home. I ( assuming the runner did not know the rule) stepped forward and screamed 'batter is out' since he cannot advance. I ask runners to return to their previous base. Coach from the batting team came unglued and said he always has his batters run on dropped third strikes since he wants to advance runners. This was in a 12U, USSSA game. How bad did I blow this or was the offensive team trying to deceive the defense?

This is a very, basic Umpire 101 rule.

PM me for a primer on some of the most understood rules

Read your book EVERY DAY!

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[Jocko]

As far as OT "deceiving" the defense...... who cares? There's no rule against his tactic. Completely legal. It's THEIR job to know the situation.

[coachshook77]

Thanks Jocko. As you could tell from post, I thought I blew it. Hard lesson learned for this rookie. Batting team won 8-7 so, coach was a little forgiving after game. One thing I always want to do is get it right. If I am unsure, I will always refer it to the experts.

[Jocko]

@coachshook77 - we all had to learn. No worries. And the best lessons are the hard ones.

[Jocko]

@coachshook77 - not only knowing the rules, but UNDERSTANDING the why's will help you learn and remember.

As I stated above, runners may attempt to advance at anytime the ball is live, right? Batter Ks. F2 muffs it. Batter runs even though he has no right to attempt to occupy 1B. You correctly didnt call time. Why, then, would baserunners not be able to steal? Likewise, why would the defense not be afforded the opportunity to get an out? Nothing has happened that makes the ball dead. Right? Hope this helps you.

[Larry in TN]

One minor point from the scorer...

 

Don't call it a dropped third strike, call it an uncaught third strike.  

 

It is uncaught if it is not legally caught.  There is no requirement in the rule for it to be dropped.  One instance where the distinction is important is when a pitch bounces before it's caught (i.e. good curve ball) yet still draws a swing.  Even if the ball is then "caught' cleanly it was no longer "in flight" so it is not a "catch" and the BR is not yet out.

 

 

Rule 2.00 - Definition of Terms

 

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it; providing he does not use his cap, protector, pocket or any other part of his uniform in getting possession. It is not a catch, however, if simultaneously or immediately following his contact with the ball, he collides with a player, or with a wall, or if he falls down, and as a result of such collision or falling, drops the ball. It is not a catch if a fielder touches a fly ball which then hits a member of the offensive team or an umpire and then is caught by another defensive player. If the fielder has made the catch and drops the ball while in the act of making a throw following the catch, the ball shall be adjudged to have been caught. In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

 

IN FLIGHT describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched the ground or some object other than a fielder.

[BigUmpire]

As far as OT "deceiving" the defense...... who cares? There's no rule against his tactic. Completely legal. It's THEIR job to know the situation.

 

You will hear GOOD coaches at all levels yelling to their players " whats the count? and/or how many outs?"

[Jocko]

As far as OT "deceiving" the defense...... who cares? There's no rule against his tactic. Completely legal. It's THEIR job to know the situation.

 

You will hear GOOD coaches at all levels yelling to their players " whats the count? and/or how many outs?"agreed. And at the appropriate times (every third/fifth pitch, after balks, when asked, etc) I will give the count. After every out, pitching change, or when asked, I give the # of outs. Still, the onus is on the defense to know the situation. Not my job to be the coach. My job is to ensure the rules are applied fairly and make judgement calls.

[Guest Big Lebowski]

I don't yell the number of outs.  I just quietly tell my catcher, "We have 1 out, Tommy."  I leave it up to him to relay that info to his team and it is there job to know the number of outs.    

[JaxRolo]

One minor point from the scorer...

Don't call it a dropped third strike, call it an uncaught third strike.

It is uncaught if it is not legally caught. There is no requirement in the rule for it to be dropped. One instance where the distinction is important is when a pitch bounces before it's caught (i.e. good curve ball) yet still draws a swing. Even if the ball is then "caught' cleanly it was no longer "in flight" so it is not a "catch" and the BR is not yet out.

Rule 2.00 -

Definition of Terms

A

CATCH

is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a

ball in flight

and firmly holding it; providing he does not use his cap, protector, pocket or any other part of his uniform in getting possession. It is not a catch, however, if simultaneously or immediately following his contact with the ball, he collides with a player, or with a wall, or if he falls down, and as a result of such collision or falling, drops the ball. It is not a catch if a fielder touches a fly ball which then hits a member of the offensive team or an umpire and then is caught by another defensive player. If the fielder has made the catch and drops the ball while in the act of making a throw following the catch, the ball shall be adjudged to have been caught. In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

IN FLIGHT

describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched the ground or some object other than a fielder.

Tomato Tomatoe

I prefer D3K

[Jocko]

One minor point from the scorer...

Don't call it a dropped third strike, call it an uncaught third strike.

It is uncaught if it is not legally caught. There is no requirement in the rule for it to be dropped. One instance where the distinction is important is when a pitch bounces before it's caught (i.e. good curve ball) yet still draws a swing. Even if the ball is then "caught' cleanly it was no longer "in flight" so it is not a "catch" and the BR is not yet out.

Rule 2.00 - Definition of Terms

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it; providing he does not use his cap, protector, pocket or any other part of his uniform in getting possession. It is not a catch, however, if simultaneously or immediately following his contact with the ball, he collides with a player, or with a wall, or if he falls down, and as a result of such collision or falling, drops the ball. It is not a catch if a fielder touches a fly ball which then hits a member of the offensive team or an umpire and then is caught by another defensive player. If the fielder has made the catch and drops the ball while in the act of making a throw following the catch, the ball shall be adjudged to have been caught. In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

IN FLIGHT describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched the ground or some object other than a fielder.

Tomato Tomatoe

I prefer D3Kagreed. But he needs to know the difference. Dropped isn't necessarily uncaught. And uncaught isn't necessarily dropped. Semantics, but it makes a difference.