Fun play on a trouble ball

[ump570]

I had a really cool play yesterday. I'm in A position, 14U ball, and the hitter smokes a high line drive to right field. I go out since it's a trouble ball, and I'm about 50 ft. from the right fielder who attempts to make an over the shoulder catch, he has the ball at first, tumbles to the ground and right before he comes up, the ball pops out and hits the ground. He tries to cradle it and get it in his throwing hand before I can see it. I signal and verbal, "No Catch, Ball is on the ground!!" Well, the funny part is, the mgr. comes out to argue, and says, "The kid never dropped it. Can you get some help?" I look at him astonished and say, "Who would you like me to get help from?" He says, "The home plate umpire." I smile and say, "I busted to get out there, he's 300 ft. away, and I'm 50 feet away. Why would I ask him for help?"

 

I clearly saw the play and the fielder has to secure possession of the ball through the entire catch. He fell to the ground still tumbling and that's when the ball came out. There was never a transfer so I had to rule that he did not have secure possession. I love when you get a call right and you know it and an entire dugout thinks you got it wrong. I just think to myself, "That entire staff just kicked the hell out of that call and I got it right."

[BigUmp56]

I feel your pain, brother. I wonder sometimes if they have any idea how foolish they look to us for making such a silly request. I usually go the other route and give them the huddle they're asking for. If you refuse to go for help it reinforces in their mind that you missed the call. My conference with my partner would have gone something like this:

"Hey, Bill. Helluva try by the right fielder to catch that laser. Who's buying the first round tonight?"

"Skip, your fielder didn't have secure possession. Call stands."

Tim.

[UMP45]

I feel your pain, brother. I wonder sometimes if they have any idea how foolish they look to us for making such a silly request. I usually go the other route and give them the huddle they're asking for. If you refuse to go for help it reinforces in their mind that you missed the call. My conference with my partner would have gone something like this:

"Hey, Bill. Helluva try by the right fielder to catch that laser. Who's buying the first round tonight?"

"Skip, your fielder didn't have secure possession. Call stands."

Tim.

No. All you did was reinforce in the other coaches mind that you will get help when he asks for it. And if and when you don't he will come unglued. If you are 100% sure you saw the play and got the call right DO NOT GET HELP!!

[BigUmp56]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've been 100% certain that I'd nailed a call like this only to have one or more of the crew have a differing opinion. On a banger, I agree to hold your ground and not go for help. A catch/no catch, a fair/foul, and all rules interpretations where a manager asks that we get help, it's best to get together. Even if it's to have a discussion about whether the 110" is that much better than a 103" Harley Davidson motor. I've kept the all caps emphasis out of my response so as to not appear disrespectful. It would be nice if in the future you have an opinion about my game management techniques you would afford me the same courtesy. You see, I know I'm not alone on this approach to handling coaches. In this area, as in many other areas, the coaches have quite a bit of say about our advancement and quality of assignments. They are the client, and we're taught to placate the organizations that employ us. Within reason, of course. It's not unreasonable to go for help when asked. Refusing makes us look like arrogant asses.

Tim.

[Replacematt]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've been 100% certain that I'd nailed a call like this only to have one or more of the crew have a differing opinion. On a banger, I agree to hold your ground and not go for help. A catch/no catch, a fair/foul, and all rules interpretations where a manager asks that we get help, it's best to get together. Even if it's to have a discussion about whether the 110" is that much better than a 103" Harley Davidson motor. I've kept the all caps emphasis out of my response so as to not appear disrespectful. It would be nice if in the future you have an opinion about my game management techniques you would afford me the same courtesy. You see, I know I'm not alone on this approach to handling coaches. In this area, as in many other areas, the coaches have quite a bit of say about our advancement and quality of assignments. They are the client, and we're taught to placate the organizations that employ us. Within reason, of course. It's not unreasonable to go for help when asked. Refusing makes us look like arrogant asses.

Tim.

 

You cannot go for help (actual or simulated) on a call that your partner has no ability to help. You will do nothing but waste time and placate a whiny coach, who will then use this operant conditioning to ask for help on on any call, and at some point, you will have to draw a line. It's much easier to draw a line where it should be and own your own calls, rather than going round the mulberry bush a dozen times a game and having to make up a reason not to go for help. That coach is not going to see the difference between a banger at first and a catch/no-catch in the outfield--they're both calls against his team that he thinks may be overturned by asking, and by allowing one but not the other, you look capricious.

[mtnump]

There is no help on this call.  BU was in the right place at the right time to make the call and made it.  There is no way I am turning from right field to the PU and asking for help to appease anyone.  If the coaches in one area want to advance umpires that cater to them, that is fine.  I will advance on my skills and merits or find somewhere else to work...

[HeadHunterLA]

On the play as described by OP I am not going to get help from anyone and it is really easy to handle a coach that asks.  Just say no, that is all.

[UMP45]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've been 100% certain that I'd nailed a call like this only to have one or more of the crew have a differing opinion. On a banger, I agree to hold your ground and not go for help. A catch/no catch, a fair/foul, and all rules interpretations where a manager asks that we get help, it's best to get together. Even if it's to have a discussion about whether the 110" is that much better than a 103" Harley Davidson motor. I've kept the all caps emphasis out of my response so as to not appear disrespectful. It would be nice if in the future you have an opinion about my game management techniques you would afford me the same courtesy. You see, I know I'm not alone on this approach to handling coaches. In this area, as in many other areas, the coaches have quite a bit of say about our advancement and quality of assignments. They are the client, and we're taught to placate the organizations that employ us. Within reason, of course. It's not unreasonable to go for help when asked. Refusing makes us look like arrogant asses.

Tim.

If you have got to kiss coaches booty to get games then do what you got to do. And if I hurt your feelings with capital letters tough SH*#.

[bluejerred]

New umpire here and so I'm going to ask a stupid question.  Out of the 9 games I have done so far - I have been the lone umpire in all of them except for one where I was the BU.  Needless to say, I was asking for any and all advice I could get from the PU who was much more experienced.  My stupid question is this, what are the types of plays that you guys have often asked for help on?  Sorry again if that is a really stupid question but I haven't really worked anything else except being a one-man umpire.

[BigUmp56]

Thank you for your comments of advice, Ump45. I'll be sure to give them the same consideration as I would any other classless comments I've seen from you in the past.

Tim.

[UMP45]

Thank you for your comments of advice, Ump45. I'll be sure to give them the same consideration as I would any other classless comments I've seen from you in the past.

Tim.

I'm crushed!

[mstaylor]

New umpire here and so I'm going to ask a stupid question.  Out of the 9 games I have done so far - I have been the lone umpire in all of them except for one where I was the BU.  Needless to say, I was asking for any and all advice I could get from the PU who was much more experienced.  My stupid question is this, what are the types of plays that you guys have often asked for help on?  Sorry again if that is a really stupid question but I haven't really worked anything else except being a one-man umpire.

You will get asked on all types of calls but many will not result in  conference. Calls where the other umpire has no look at the play, just keep it yourself. The other night I was working a BL state final, throw pulls the F3 off the base and he swiped at the runner. The BU never jab stepped so he safed him. The manager asked him to get help, I was the PU, I had the tag, U2 had the tag, so he turned it around. The catch in RF, I doubt I would have asked but if the PU  is doing his job he should be  in the working area to take the runner. It is possible he may have had a look, but maybe not. A couple of years ago I was the PU, catch going away and the fielder bobbled the ball but I had a catch. The manager felt it hit the fence on the bobble. He wanted me to ask my partner who started in A. If he is doing his job, he is coming in and watching the touch at first. I told the coach there wasn't a chance I was asking. The BU should be looking the other way and the ball was on the off side anyway. 

[HeadHunterLA]

New umpire here and so I'm going to ask a stupid question.  Out of the 9 games I have done so far - I have been the lone umpire in all of them except for one where I was the BU.  Needless to say, I was asking for any and all advice I could get from the PU who was much more experienced.  My stupid question is this, what are the types of plays that you guys have often asked for help on?  Sorry again if that is a really stupid question but I haven't really worked anything else except being a one-man umpire.

 

Not a stupid question at all.  I have been at this for 20+ years and the best advice I can give you is that you are best served by doing your job and owning your call.  Now I still have situations where something goes haywire and I get straight lined, or a fielder does the unexpected, or whatever and I might have a need for some help.  And if it is something like a pulled foot, or whether the catcher caught or short hopped a third strike I will ask for help if I need it.  And if a coach or manager has a legitimate reason for asking me to get some help I will do it.  But only if I have reason to believe that I didn't have the best angle on something that my partner might have seen better.  And this is where a good partner can help out tremendously, a closed or open hand on that dropped third strike.  A quick shake of the head to let you know he has nothing when a coach is demanding you get help.  So man up, own your calls and get a hand when you need it.  But I have umpired north of 50 games this summer and have asked for help exactly one time.  Cheers!