Again, what's the call.

[guinnemick]

I am doing a juniors game last night. Runner on third, and a pass ball. the runner comes home from third, at the same time, the catcher throws the ball to the pitcher who was at the plate. The pitcher catches the ball and turns around to tag the runner. The runner comes in, the pitcher applies the tag on the leg, knocking the ball loose. The runner does not slide and comes in standing up. While being tag, the runner clips the pitchers leg and falls over. I called the runner safe. Of course, the coach comes out says the runner can not run into a player at home other than the catcher, and I should have called the runner out and tossed him from the game. I had other umpires in the stands say the same thing, but one was the dad of the pitcher, and the other was his friend. Tell me what you would have called.

[carolinablue]

This is a HTBT to me but if the pitcher had the ball and was waiting to make the tag, the runner needs to slide or try to avoid contact. If ball, runner, and pitcher are arriving all about the same time, then it's probably just a train wreck and you made a good call. Personally, I have never had a play with a runner trying to score and a catcher throwing to the pitcher at the plate where it ends up a must slide/try to avoid situation, but that's not to say it can't happen, I'm sure it can.

[Rich Ives]

This is a HTBT to me but if the pitcher had the ball and was waiting to make the tag, the runner needs to slide or try to avoid contact. If ball, runner, and pitcher are arriving all about the same time, then it's probably just a train wreck and you made a good call. Personally, I have never had a play with a runner trying to score and a catcher throwing to the pitcher at the plate where it ends up a must slide/try to avoid situation, but that's not to say it can't happen, I'm sure it can.

It's "attempt to go around". There is NO "avoid contact" (attempted or otherwise) anywhere in the rule. You really need to understand this because you'll get comments like "can't run into the player" (and you did didn't you) and you have to be able to explain it. And yes "seasoned pros", at the LL level it's best to explain.

Personally, I have never had a play with a runner trying to score and a catcher throwing to the pitcher at the plate where it ends up a must slide/try to avoid situation

REALLY? How new at this are you?

[carolinablue]

I have had plays where the catcher has got the ball and beat the runner and was able to block off the plate before he got there but thus far, any time the pitcher is thrown the ball by the catcher, the pitcher is still running towards the plate and attempting a swipe tag. I did say I'm sure it can happen but so far not with me.

Also, sorry about the incorrect wording, you are absolutely right.

Am I wrong in the interpretation that a fielder that has the ball would have to be blocking the base or at least be in the basepath before the runner is required to slide or attempt to go around.

[mstaylor]

The fielder has to have the ball before the slide or attempt to avoid comes into play. If the contact isn't a malicious contact then it is nothing but a LL myth.

[Rich Ives]

I have had plays where the catcher has got the ball and beat the runner and was able to block off the plate before he got there but thus far, any time the pitcher is thrown the ball by the catcher, the pitcher is still running towards the plate and attempting a swipe tag. I did say I'm sure it can happen but so far not with me.

Also, sorry about the incorrect wording, you are absolutely right.

Am I wrong in the interpretation that a fielder that has the ball would have to be blocking the base or at least be in the basepath before the runner is required to slide or attempt to go around.

The fielder would have to be between the runner and the base (subtle difference to "in the path") based on the runner's chosen route. If he wasn't then the straight path to the base would in effect be "going around" the fielder and would satisfy the rule.

[Mr Umpire]

When I explain it, I say the runner must "Get down, go around, or give up". That covers all except "Turn around and go back". The idea is to attempt to avoid contact which can be prevented or should be done in a legal manner, whether the rule says it or not.

Now, for the OP, I have the runner as being safe. Baseball is a contact sport. How can the runner avoid contact with the glove? The whole idea of a tag is to have contact with the glove.

If all that happened was legs getting tangled up, then there was no MC and that is not avoidable illegal contact. The idea of the rule is to prevent avoidable illegal contact. This kind of contact will happen even if the runner slides. And, it wasn't avoidable due to the timing of the play. And, the ball coming loose b/c he didn't slide is not a valid argument either. The ball can still do that on the slide.

You made the right call based on the description.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Mr Umpire

[Rich Ives]

When I explain it, I say the runner must "Get down, go around, or give up". .

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

It's ATTEMPT to go around.

Runner veers to go around, catcher steps into his path. BANG!

Runner has met the requirement of the rule. No violation.

[Mike Prince]

Rich is like the UE police lately

:rollinglaugh:Just kidding, good clarification in your post.

[Mr Umpire]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

It's ATTEMPT to go around.

Runner veers to go around, catcher steps into his path. BANG!

Runner has met the requirement of the rule. No violation.

Exactly. It doesn't say he has to readjust to do it again. He did go around on the initial play.

[Dragon29]

guinnemick,

Don't ever let a coach convince of you something like this:

. . . the coach comes out says the runner can not run into a player at home other than the catcher, . . .

So, the coach thinks it's OK to run into the catcher, but no-one else? What's he got against catchers?

Coaches know all sorts of these 'secret' rules that us lowly umpire never seem to learn.