Failure to touch First Walk off Walk

[DoIneedGlasses??]

Had a kid walk with the bases loaded to end the game this evening. However, instead of walking to first he turned high five his teammates as they came rushing out of the dugout. His coach yelled at him to run down to first and the opposing coach came out yelling "He's out!" I didn't call him out and said he didn't give up his right to touch first, which he turned and did eventually.

In any case, I told the coach after the game that he didn't make a proper appeal by throwin the ball to first.

Someone else pointed out that his teammates helped turn him around and therefore it should have been called interference and the runner out without an appeal.

Seems so simple to just walk down to first...lol, but some kids just don't think at age 12.

Any comments whether I was right or did I miss something?

[Rich Ives]

Had a kid walk with the bases loaded to end the game this evening. However, instead of walking to first he turned high five his teammates as they came rushing out of the dugout. His coach yelled at him to run down to first and the opposing coach came out yelling "He's out!" I didn't call him out and said he didn't give up his right to touch first, which he turned and did eventually.

In any case, I told the coach after the game that he didn't make a proper appeal by throwin the ball to first.

Someone else pointed out that his teammates helped turn him around and therefore it should have been called interference and the runner out without an appeal.

Seems so simple to just walk down to first...lol, but some kids just don't think at age 12.

Any comments whether I was right or did I miss something?

1) It's not an appeal play.

2) You can only call him out if he REFUSES to go touch first. Tell him to go touch and if he REFUSES call him out.

3) There's no rule that says the teammates can't help him (a base coach cannot physically assist - the verbal "Go touch first Joey" is prefectly legal).

[txump81]

The runners are not forced to advance until the BR touches 1B as I learned from my situation I posted yesterday. And as was posted earlier the BR must refuse before he is called out. LL is always interesting and WILL test your rules knowledge with some outlandish situations.

[Rich Ives]

The runners are not forced to advance until the BR touches 1B as I learned from my situation I posted yesterday. And as was posted earlier the BR must refuse before he is called out. LL is always interesting and WILL test your rules knowledge with some outlandish situations.

It's an OBR rule too.

In OBR (LL) only the batter and R3 need to advance on a walk-off walk.

In FED all runners need to advance.

[UmpJM]

The runners are not forced to advance until the BR touches 1B as I learned from my situation I posted yesterday. And as was posted earlier the BR must refuse before he is called out. LL is always interesting and WILL test your rules knowledge with some outlandish situations.

txump,

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but with the bases loaded, the runners are forced to advance as soon as the batter becomes a runner (i.e. as soon as the 4th ball is called in this sitch). They remain forced until either the BR is retired or they reach their advance base.

JM

[Rich Ives]

txump,

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but with the bases loaded, the runners are forced to advance as soon as the batter becomes a runner (i.e. as soon as the 4th ball is called in this sitch). They remain forced until either the BR is retired or they reach their advance base.

JM

Rule 6.08(a) Comment: A batter who is entitled to first base because of a base on balls must go to first base and touch the base before other base runners are forced to advance.

[PeteBooth]

Rule 6.08(a) Comment: A batter who is entitled to first base because of a base on balls must go to first base and touch the base before other base runners are forced to advance.

Another error in the OBR rule book

OBR 2.00 Definition of a Force Play

A Force play is a play in which a runner LEGALLY loses his right to occupy a base by reason of a batter becoming a runner.

When B1 receives ball 4 he is no longer a batter but a runner. According to the definition of a force play. R1/R2/R3 have LEGALLY lost their right to occupy their respective bases as soon as B1 became a runner.

In order for the Force play to be removed, B1 would need to be declared out.

Therefore there is a contradiction between OBR rule 2 and OBR 6.08(a) Comment with regards to a force play.

Pete Booth

[UmpJM]

Rule 6.08(a) Comment: A batter who is entitled to first base because of a base on balls must go to first base and touch the base before other base runners are forced to advance.

Rich,

A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

Rule 7.04(B) Comment: A runner forced to advance without liability to be put out may advance past the base to which he is entitled only at his peril. If such a runner, forced to advance, is put out for the third out before a preceding runner, also forced to advance, touches home plate, the run shall score.

Play. Two out, bases full, batter walks but runner from second is overzealous and runs past third base toward home and is tagged out on a throw by the catcher. Even though two are out, the run would score on the theory that the run was forced home by the base on balls and that all the runners needed to do was proceed and touch the next base.

Seems to be some contradictory statements in the rules. B)

What do you suppose the 6.08(a) Comment you cited actually MEANS?

JM

[Rich Ives]

Pete and JM.

Not sure why, but the comment is why the batter has to go touch first on the game-ending walk.

[txump81]

Asked this question to a 30-yr veteran...For LL, runner must touch first before other runners are "forced". Also, as long as the BR never entered the dugout, he is not out, until requested to touch the base. If he then doesn't, he has refused to touch 1B. Out.