HammerPIAA

No attempt to advance. Simply taking his normal lead. No steal attempt made. I do know that if he had attempted to advance, the move would have been considered legal since the P would have been attempting to make a play on an advancing runner, but that was clearly not the case here.

There was a recent thread with a situation similar to this one but its not quite the same so I thought I'd throw it out there for you guys.......... 11U tournament, NFHS rules. Runner on first, RHP on mound. Pitcher stretches then comes set, all legally, foot engaged with pitchers plate. Starts motion from set position, non-pivot foot comes back behind the pitchers plate, then he does a perfect spin move for a pickoff throw to 2B. Spins, steps towards the base, but then realizes there's no runner there (nor is any fielder covering the bag, naturally) and then doesnt throw. I balk him - in this case, tournament rules play one warning per pitcher, this was first occurrence, so I warn him. DC is all over me about the warning. I explain that P cannot feint towards an unoccupied bag. He says that when he spun around, his foot disengaged with the pitchers plate and therefore he became a fielder and thus he was entitled to do anything he wanted ("he could throw the ball into left field if he wanted to"). I disagreed with him and told him that a feint towards an unoccupied bag was an attempt to deceive the runner (although in retrospect the kid just screwed up, in my opinion - but at the time the play was very awkward, as you might imagine). In the end there was no harm and no foul, but I wanted to be sure I got it right. I cite NFHS 6.2.4.b - did I make the right call?

Totally understood, and I appreciate all the feedback. The ball definitely arrived first and I felt the same way. At this level it would be hard to have a clean catch and tag without dropping the ball if it HADNT arrived first.

Yeah, my bad on that juxtaposition. Was supposed to convey that it was the same coach who questioned the uncaught 3rd earlier in the game. Guess that would have made the game even more interesting than it was!

I honestly did not feel either of those occurred. It was just a clean close play with a good throw, catch and tag, and runner just did a normal hard but safe slide (per our league rules) but never made it to the plate due to the positioning of C when he caught the ball and applied the tag.

12U playoff game, NFHS rules. Im behind the plate working solo. Close game in 3rd inning - R3, 1 out. Uncaught third strike, batter doesnt realize ball hit ground and starts toward dugout but C doesnt throw down because R3 is dancing and ready to take off as soon as the throw goes to 1B. Coaches start screaming for kid to run to 1B. He's about half way to the dugout/bench area when he finally acknowledges his coaches and realizes that he's got to run so he takes off, from a spot that was about 10 feet right of the foul line, and on a direct line to first right from there. Throw never goes down from C to 1B because of R3. DC starts protesting that the batter should be out because 1) he gave himself up, and 2) he was out of the baseline. I explain that on dropped 3rd, rules say that batter hasnt given himself up until he enters the dugout/bench area (which he clearly had not) and then his baseline is established in a straight line between where he started to advance to 1B and 1B. My interpretation is that "out of the baseline" is only to avoid a tag or to interfere intentionally with a fielder making a play, neither of which occurred here. He disagreed. Im pretty confident I got this one right, but wanted to get some more points of view. 2nd play,and this is probably a HTBT.............4th inning, tie score - close play at plate, runner coming home, ball thrown from SS on relay from OF, catcher steps out in front of plate on 3B side to accept the throw and in doing so, effectively "blocks the plate". The ball definitely arrived first, in time enough for a clean catch and tag for the out, although was close, runner never touched the plate because it was blocked. DC (same guy) comes out and says that it was Obstruction because the runner didnt have a space to get to the plate. Our league has a strict "slide or avoid contact" rule, so everything on the runner's end was by the book. I called the kid out and told the DC that although it was close, no obstruction. Did I blow this one? I felt that if I call that kid safe on obstruction with a clean tag and slide, the OC is going to go ballistic too - no win situation.

I agree 100%........................ and to be honest, when this was originally brought to me, my first response was, "How did both the batter-runner AND the 1B coach not hear the call? Did he whisper it?"

My understanding is that on a walk, since it is a non-dead ball one-base award, that the runner IS liable to be put out if he's off the bag once he touches.

PU was working solo. Unfortunately for him, he didnt immediately return to the base after overrunning it...........he just headed for the dugout right away. From what I gather, I dont believe the PU would have called him out (for abandonment) without the tag because he admitted to both coaches that he wasnt sure what the ruling should be. I was told that the kid was not in the dugout, but was very close to entering when he was tagged.

The runner made no attempt to advance. After being called safe, he simply never returned to retouch 1B because he thought he was out.

He touched first on the original play, was called safe, and then thinking he was out, headed for the dugout and was almost there when the defensive team realized what was up and tagged him. He did not make an attempt to advance, instead turned right and headed for the dugout. Would love to know what his 1B coach was thinking!

That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

Apologies in advance if this has been covered before..........this just happened in one of our 12U games this past week. Our league uses NFHS rules. Batter grounds to SS, throw from SS to 1B clearly beats runner but 1B bobbles then drops throw, and then quickly picks up ball after runner has crossed bag. PU calls runner safe on the bobble/drop. Runner believes he is out (because ball clearly beat him) but he didnt see the drop and didnt hear the PU call. 1B coach is obviously not paying attention. Runner turns around from normal overrun of 1B bag and heads to the dugout. Before he gets to dugout, defensive team realizes what's happening and runs and tags him. Offensive coach argues that he is safe because he had legally acquired 1B on the safe call. PU admitted to both coaches that he didnt know what to do, but ultimately made a decision and called the runner out. Whats the correct ruling? I was not at this game, but I was asked by several parents/coaches because while this was not my game, I do quite a few games in our league and no one (including our UIC) seemed to know the answer. I told them I wasnt 100% sure but I'm calling the kid out based on 1) being out of the baseline and/or 2) giving himself up (even though he hadn't yet entered the dugout).