Gr8Dane

I work NFHS softball. Our rules and case book have no guidance on how to judge when a "tag attempt" has begun, and thus when the basepath is established. I don't know if NCAA has any guidance. But I did find that MLB does provide this guidance in the minor league manual: “When determining whether a base runner should be called out under Rule 5.09(b) (1), so long as the umpire determines that a play is being made on the runner and an attempt to tag is occurring (i.e., the fielder is moving to tag the runner), no physical tag attempt is required to call a runner out for leaving the basepath." So, that is the guidance I use. I have been in some heated discussions in other forums about this. Many umps believe that there DOES need to be a physical tag attempt, or that the fielder needs to be within tagging distance. I don't believe either of these two things be true in order to judge it a tag attempt. I think if the fielder has the ball and is moving toward the runner in a clear attempt to tag them out, a "play is being made on the runner" and thus the basepath is now established. They don't need to physically reach out. How do you judge a tag attempt?

Well, I was an ump 30 years ago and just jumped back in for Little League this year, so yeah I just discovered this rule change this year. And there is no way in hell MLB would ever say you are out of the batter's box because you lifted your foot. That is ridiculous.

Scroll up and see a great explanation of foot on or off the ground. I shall quote... "You're not out of the box until your foot completely touches the ground outside of it. ie. you stand on the front line of the box with your back foot, and your front foot in the air - you hit the ball it is legal as you are still in the box...as long as that one foot touching the ground is touching some part of the box. 3d space only matters in determining the status of a ball - where the ball is in space in relation to fair/foul/out-of-play...for people, status is dictated by what they are touching or last touched (mostly)"

Yes, it seems pretty unequivocal. 5.09(a)(7) says only if you're legally in the box and 5.04(b)(5) says in the box means both feet. Pretty cut and dry. However, I think if you're in the box and one foot is in the air ... I think you're still clean.

I think what Rich Ives is pointing out is that the premise here is the ball hits the batter over fair territory, so it's not fair or foul depending on his feet, it's INT-dead ball-out ...or foul ball...depending on where his feet are. But, yeah I think we're all talking about the same thing in different ways.

Someone else on here said the foot location is either where is currently is on the ground or the last place it touched on the ground if it's in the air. That merely lifting the foot into the air across the batter's box line does not constitute being out of the box. It's not until the foot is on the ground outside the box that they are considered out of the box.

Well the 2019 OBR refers to it as a fair ball in 5.09(a)(7) and references 5.04(b)(5)

Thank you!

Right, that's another good question. It's a batter's box, not a batter's plate. You don't have to be in contact with it in order to be "in" it. So, it seems like you can be "out" of it with your foot in the air across the line. But, I would think you'd have to be all the way out either way.

I'm confused by that answer. Does one foot in and one foot out of the box mean he's still in the box and protected from interference if he touches the fair ball?

The attached clip is the screen shot of the current rules. Sorry, poor choice of words.

Check out this baseball rules interpretation page. Look at the 5th section down below "After hitting the ball SAFE" http://baseball-rules.com/batterbox.htm Now look at the MLB 2019 OBR - see attached screen clip. THE QUESTION IS: After hitting a fair ball, the batter takes one step completely out of the box - the other foot is still in the box - and the ball hits the player in fair territory. Out? or Foul ball? Is the player protected from interference with one foot out of the box like that? We are going round and round about this on two different umpire groups on Facebook.