Live Balks - the last discussion

[Umpire942]

I have always brought up this with umpires and coaches pre game as sometimes tournament level games go with live balks (or delayed balk) , aka official baseball rule balk.

This is always true ncaa and higher, but could vary under this level.

I keep hearing umpires say , yes its live here, and we offense chooses.  I have had umpires stop me from calling time and taking care of the situation saying "they get to choose". but I do not see there is any scenerio ... where there is a choice?  please correct me if im wrong.

The general rule is , did the runner(s) get a base or more.  Did the batter (if applicable) get his base.  Thats it.

So theses are the things that make people uncertain and i guess why its dead in high school.  Please correct me if im wrong on any of these.

BALK occurs:

1) force situation (man on 1st or 1st and 2nd  or loaded). 3 balls on the batter: balk is disregarded, PITCH COUNTS, batter walks, runners move a base.

2) batter hit by pitch.  I first though if it was not a force and there was a runner on 2nd, he has to go to third and the batter stays in the box.  

a. man on 1st (or 1st and 2nd or loaded), batter hit by pitch,  Pitch counts, batter gets based , runners move.  

b. runner on 2nd alone or 3rd or 2nd and 3rd.  Does he stay and runners move , or gets the base

c. 1st and 3rd.  does he stay and runners move, or do we have bases loaded and man on 1st goes to 2nd since forced.

 

3) any other scenerio where the batter gets a hit,  as long as the runner , moved one base on the hit (or more) we are good.

 

4) The only other things i can think of is if the runner tried for more then he is allowed and is tagged out.  That would stand?

 

Thanks everyone

[jimurrayalterego]

55 minutes ago, Umpire942 said:

BALK occurs:

1) force situation (man on 1st or 1st and 2nd  or loaded). 3 balls on the batter: balk is disregarded, PITCH COUNTS, batter walks, runners move a base.

Yes

2) batter hit by pitch.  I first though if it was not a force and there was a runner on 2nd, he has to go to third and the batter stays in the box.  

a. man on 1st (or 1st and 2nd or loaded), batter hit by pitch,  Pitch counts, batter gets based , runners move. 

Yes 

b. runner on 2nd alone or 3rd or 2nd and 3rd.  Does he stay and runners move , or gets the base

No Pitch, batter stays with bruise, runners advance

c. 1st and 3rd.  does he stay and runners move, or do we have bases loaded and man on 1st goes to 2nd since forced.

No Pitch, batter stays with bruise, runners advance

3) any other scenerio where the batter gets a hit,  as long as the runner , moved one base on the hit (or more) we are good.

The balk is ignored

4) The only other things i can think of is if the runner tried for more then he is allowed and is tagged out.  That would stand?

It's easier to cut and paste from the MLBUM for this:

"(7) If the balk is followed by a wild throw to a base, the Approved Ruling of Official Baseball Rule 6.02(a) provides that the runner may advance beyond the base to which the runner is entitled at his own risk. In that situation the umpire shall call the balk in the usual manner but shall not call “Time” until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and a fielder is in possession of the ball in the infield).

(8) If the balk is followed by a wild pitch, the Approved Ruling of Official Baseball Rule 6.02(a) provides that the runner may advance beyond the base to which the runner is entitled at his own risk. In that situation, the umpire shall call the balk in the usual manner but shall not call “Time” until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and a fielder is in possession of the ball in the infield).

Note that even if the runner advances to or beyond the base to which the runner is entitled because of a wild pitch following a balk, the balk is still “acknowl edged.” That is, the pitch is nullified and the batter will resume the at-bat with the count that existed when the balk occurred unless:

(a) The wild pitch was ball four on which all runners advanced one base; or

(b) The wild pitch was strike three on which the batter and all other runners advanced one base. In both situations (a) and (b) above, play proceeds without reference to the balk, because all runners (including the batter-runner) advanced one base on the pitch following the balk." 

 

Thanks everyone

Added some notes in your text but as regards this: "I keep hearing umpires say , yes its live here, and we offense chooses.  I have had umpires stop me from calling time and taking care of the situation saying "they get to choose". but I do not see there is any scenerio ... where there is a choice?  please correct me if im wrong."

There is an esoteric scenario regarding the doctoring the ball penalty where you can find the word "choice". Otherwise there is no choice in the OBR/NCAA balk rule. There are guys who dress as umpires who find it hard to understand what you understand correctly and revert to using "coach choice."

[The Man in Blue]

Sounds to me as if you have umpires who work softball as their primary.  An illegal pitch presents the offense with an option of the penalty or the play.

[jimurrayalterego]

12 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Sounds to me as if you have umpires who work softball as their primary.  An illegal pitch presents the offense with an option of the penalty or the play.

Sounds to me as if he works with baseball umpires who do not or cannot put the effort into understanding the rule.

[MadMax]

On 7/28/2026 at 4:44 PM, Umpire942 said:

but I do not see there is any scenerio ... where there is a choice?

A mnemonic (memory aid) for this: 

Are there any letters from “choice” in Balk? No, so there is no choice in a Balk. 

Are there any letters from “choice” in Catcher’s Interference (CI)? Obviously. Thus, there is a choice available in CI. 

Consider, though, that in the pro game (both uppercase and lowercase), we (umpires) are taught to enforce the penalty of CI, unless it is satisfied by the outcome of the play. We enforce it, and then we allow a manager to inquire about (the) option(s); the managers are paid pros, and the burden is on them to know (the rule). However, in the amateur game, it is best practice to mention that an/the option is available. We should still enforce the penalty first, though, to make the rule’s application innate upon ourselves, but after that enforcement, be accommodating and thorough in discussing the optional outcome. You’ve got plenty of time. 

Once you apply the penalties of Balks and CIs, you start to recognize and realize the differences between them. 

[The Man in Blue]

On 7/29/2026 at 9:52 AM, jimurrayalterego said:

Sounds to me as if he works with baseball umpires who do not or cannot put the effort into understanding the rule.

Both things can be true at the same time.

[TheLovejoy]

On 7/30/2026 at 6:42 PM, MadMax said:

 

Consider, though, that in the pro game (both uppercase and lowercase), we (umpires) are taught to enforce the penalty of CI, unless it is satisfied by the outcome of the play. We enforce it, and then we allow a manager to inquire about (the) option(s); the managers are paid pros, and the burden is on them to know (the rule). However, in the amateur game, it is best practice to mention that an/the option is available. We should still enforce the penalty first, though, to make the rule’s application innate upon ourselves, but after that enforcement, be accommodating and thorough in discussing the optional outcome. You’ve got plenty of time. 

It's actually really funny you mention this. We had a discussion just this year about the differences in coaches/levels of play, and who we need to hold accountable to know the rule. Then, help accordingly.

In not so certain terms it was something like, 'The programs that pay their coaches full time, enforce the CI and move on. Let them bring it up. Your 16u, or 14u junior league games, enforce it, and help educate the coach on the options.' 
At the level where the coaches are basically still volunteer dad coaches, help them. But once the coaches are paid by the programs to just coach, they need to know what's going on. 

What we get are some High School soph/frosh teams who are just surviving because some mom volunteered to help coach so they could have a team. Then, some American Legion program where the head coach makes 60k a year. They are not expected to know the game the same way.