Overturning an ejection

[HumblePie]

What is the NFHS Rule Reference that says an ejection may never be overturned under any circumstances?

[jimurrayalterego]

2 hours ago, HumblePie said:

What is the NFHS Rule Reference that says an ejection may never be overturned under any circumstances?

Don't know of any. Texas UIL has an appeal process that does allow an overturn. Haven't heard of any occurrence. And they specifically state that player ejections can not be overturned by a game official or chapter. 

[HumblePie]

I should have clarified, I'm talking about an Umpire changing his mind after consulting with his partner(s) during that game. 

The example is, a fan standing next to the dugout yells a profanity at the umpire, who tosses the coach who is standing right next to the individual, and after consulting with his partner, believes that the fan yelled, not the coach.

I'm actually not talking about a state level appeals process, which is a horse of a different color.

[Jimurray]

7 minutes ago, HumblePie said:

I should have clarified, I'm talking about an Umpire changing his mind after consulting with his partner(s) during that game. 

The example is, a fan standing next to the dugout yells a profanity at the umpire, who tosses the coach who is standing right next to the individual, and after consulting with his partner, believes that the fan yelled, not the coach.

I'm actually not talking about a state level appeals process, which is a horse of a different color.

I had a partner eject a coach who actually was yelling at his players but my partner, a long way away, thought it was directed at him. I told partner what was said and to who and he reversed his ejection. 

[HumblePie]

Okay, but my question is, is there a rule (your case play} in the NFHS books that directly addresses this?

[grayhawk]

Maybe we should ask Hunter this question.

[SeeingEyeDog]

16 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Maybe we should ask Hunter this question.

{DJ horn plays...several times...}

Savage...also true! And? Savage...

~Dawg

[SeeingEyeDog]

Oh and...@HumblePie, your NFHS citation on that is 10-1-6.

~Dawg

[HumblePie]

34 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Oh and...@HumblePie, your NFHS citation on that is 10-1-6.

~Dawg

This absolutely does not address the question in my post.  Why have you forced me to type out the rule you referenced?

10-1-6

 ... The umpire's right to disqualify players or to remove nonplayers for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct is absolute.

If I'm the ejector ... and I realize that I erred ... may I undo my ejection? 

"Absent a rule that says I can't, I can."

Yes, I went Theodore Roosevelt there, but it applies.

[SeeingEyeDog]

10 hours ago, HumblePie said:

This absolutely does not address the question in my post.  Why have you forced me to type out the rule you referenced?

10-1-6

 ... The umpire's right to disqualify players or to remove nonplayers for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct is absolute.

If I'm the ejector ... and I realize that I erred ... may I undo my ejection? 

"Absent a rule that says I can't, I can."

Yes, I went Theodore Roosevelt there, but it applies.

Ok, so 10-1-6 covers NON-PLAYERS. So, I get partial credit for covering coaches, mascots and any NON-PLAYER team personnel or representatives I eject on my field. 10-1-6 clearly covers NON-PLAYERS.

Also?

I spoke with the guy who signs my checks AND my state athletic association rules interpreter earlier this evening on this and I was told...yeah, 10-1-6 covers NON-PLAYERS. And I was told NOT to reverse those ejections. All ejections in my state are reviewed by the athletic association so, we've seen things over the years where the mandatory 2 game suspension is waived because it wasn't a "good ejection". Player ejections CAN be reversed but, I and my partners are still required to file a report if we reverse a player ejection because it's likely the opposition's chief administrator will be reaching out to them for an explanation.

So, if it's ok with you...I'm going to follow orders and do as I'm told while also thanking them for this direction because clearly the rule book is vague. I would highly recommend all of us checking with YOUR authority so YOU know what to do in YOUR market(s).

And Brother Pie, man? If you could maybe engage with this forum in a bit more positive and brotherly way, that would be really cromulent, man...it's really hard to learn things and exchange information in a supportive way when one is getting blasted with negativity, man...we all get blasted with enough negativity on the field. We don't need to do that to each other here, too. It's clear you're a totally exceptional umpire who doesn't make a lot of mistakes and I'm hoping to get there too one day, man. In the meantime, I'm going to make a lot more mistakes and I could use your help brother, man...as a President greater than Roosevelt could ever hope to be (and Roosevelt was groovy, no doubt...) "We can disagree without being disagreeable."

~Dawg 

 

[HumblePie]

Agreed. 

On all accounts. 

Especially that the rule book is vague. 

Nothing in that rule book should be vague. It is put together by educators.

Please accept my apology, Dawg. 

[BLWizzRanger]

I had something written up and then realized that my 3man crew did actually overturn an ejection by me (Jr guy on crew).  A team was getting hot by my CC/PU (30+ years experience) not having a good day at the plate. The PU had talked to the coaches before about comments but after one pitch, one player starts beating the padding on the dugout's rails demonstrably over a call.  I tossed him from the 'C'.  

We got together and the Sr umps wanted to overturn the ejection because there wasn't an official warning to the bench and they are softies to players - trying to keep them in the game. I relented to my partners and they overturned the ejection.  The CC/PU explained to the HC why 'we' did. I guess I was ok with it since I had forgotten about it.

But first.... Playing devils advocate here.....

Other than what I described above, doesn't there seem to be a level of common sense here?  If one umpire misunderstands what he hears from a HC, throws him out, and the partner confirms that the HC didn't say that, I would think the right thing to do is to bring the HC back. 

In my case, I was trying to stop them from being dickheads in the dugouts and it worked, ultimately, But, we were fluid in the game in this instance.

[HumblePie]

Buzz, 

You hit the nail on the head with the common sense point. 

The problem is, common sense is not common. 

I'm not sure I'm okay with your partners coercing you to take back the ejection of the kid banging the dugout padding. They decided you were using poor judgment. 

My entire post is about when an Umpire makes an honest mistake ... Some guy dropped an f-bomb from the general direction of the head coach, but another umpire saw and heard that the f-bomb came from a parent. 

THIS VERY THING HAPPENED TO AARON BOONE A FEW YEARS BACK. 

Then yes, I'm in the camp that says common sense should prevail, and you can undo your own ejection. 

Unfortunately, I believe there is an annually debated FED test question that says under no circumstances can an ejection be undone. 

I've been disappointed in FED for DECADES for having such a concentration of supposed baseball experts, and still The Rules book and Case Book end up with ambiguities and vagueness. And, flat-out mistakes. Errors.

There's absolutely no excuse for it.

Anyone with an eighth grade education can read in the Case Book that there are times that an Umpire is authorized to restrict a player to the dugout.  3-1-1(f-k) Penalty.

Yet, inexplicably, the FED test question (answer) says that an umpire cannot restrict a player to the dugout for an unsportsmanlike act. He can warn or eject, and there is no middle ground. 

The second glaring example is, when an Illegal Substitute is used (and discovered), the coach is ejected, and the player is RESTRICTED to the dugout.

[jimurrayalterego]

On 1/13/2026 at 11:36 AM, HumblePie said:

Buzz, 

You hit the nail on the head with the common sense point. 

The problem is, common sense is not common. 

I'm not sure I'm okay with your partners coercing you to take back the ejection of the kid banging the dugout padding. They decided you were using poor judgment. 

My entire post is about when an Umpire makes an honest mistake ... Some guy dropped an f-bomb from the general direction of the head coach, but another umpire saw and heard that the f-bomb came from a parent. 

THIS VERY THING HAPPENED TO AARON BOONE A FEW YEARS BACK. 

Then yes, I'm in the camp that says common sense should prevail, and you can undo your own ejection. 

Unfortunately, I believe there is an annually debated FED test question that says under no circumstances can an ejection be undone. 

I've been disappointed in FED for DECADES for having such a concentration of supposed baseball experts, and still The Rules book and Case Book end up with ambiguities and vagueness. And, flat-out mistakes. Errors.

There's absolutely no excuse for it.

Anyone with an eighth grade education can read in the Facebook that there are times that an Umpire is authorized to restrict a player to the dugout.  3-1-1(f-k) Penalty.

Yet, inexplicably, the FED test question (answer) says that an Umpire cannot restrict a player to The dugout. He can warn or eject, and there is no middle ground. 

The second glaring example is, when an Illegal Substitute is used (and discovered), the coach is ejected, and the player is RESTRICTED to the dugout.

Is this softball? Baseball coach is not ejected for illegal sub.

[The Man in Blue]

10-1-6 does apply to players as well as non-players.  It simply uses different terminology (disqualify for players, remove for non-players).

The rule states that the umpire's right to do so is absolute, not their action is.  So, quite the opposite of what it seems some places do.  By my reading of that rule, an umpire can change their decision, but no one else can change it for them.  A state, league, or conference may choose to forgo added penalties (e.g., suspensions), but they cannot overturn the disqualification/removal (ejection).

As @HumblePie alludes to, I have heard this before, but I cannot put a finger on it.  I think it really goes back to the "can't un-ring the bell" nature of the game.

[HumblePie]

On 1/14/2026 at 1:00 PM, jimurrayalterego said:

Is this softball? Baseball coach is not ejected for illegal sub.

OK ... my error.

I'll tell you where my misunderstanding came from.

A head coach in the state of Indiana put an ineligible player into a game, one who had dropped out of school, and it was almost immediately discovered by a parent on that same team.  The official was made aware, it was not just an accidental illegal sub, and the head coach was ejected (and subsequently fired).  I've carried the misconception that using an illegal sub is an ejection erroneously since then.

I think the Official was within his rights to eject the head coach, based on the spirit of rules and fair play, it just wasn't mandatory by rule.

[HumblePie]

14 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

10-1-6 does apply to players as well as non-players.  It simply uses different terminology (disqualify for players, remove for non-players).

The rule states that the umpire's right to do so is absolute, not their action is.  So, quite the opposite of what is seems some places do.  By my reading of that rule, an umpire can change their decision, but no one else can change it for them.  A state, league, or conference may choose to forgo added penalties (e.g., suspensions), but they cannot overturn the disqualification/removal (ejection).

As @HumblePie alludes to, I have heard this before, but I cannot put a finger on it.  I think it really goes back to the "can't un-ring the bell" nature of the game.

I think this is the justification I've been looking for ... with a dash of common sense thrown in for good measure.

We can change most any call if we have close to 100% proof that we blew it.  We change outs to safe on a dropped ball we didn't see, we change fair to foul and vice versa at all levels that use replay.  We should be able and encouraged to fix an erroneous ejection, as long as we are not coerced or "shamed" into it.

Thank you.  MUCH appreciated.

[The Man in Blue]

Some added confusion fuel may come from the awkward wording in the UIC's duties (10-2-3-c):

I don't believe that is saying the coach should be restricted/ejected as much as it is clarifying you do not eject a player who is "not a player", you can only restrict them. 

 

This brings up another interesting line of questioning that I have, though.

As an umpire, how do I know that a player is eligible/ineligible?  I'd be curious what that umpire based his decision on.  In my experience, I have NEVER gotten involved in a roster issue.  I have always directed those to the game administrator/tournament director/etc.

[noumpere]

10 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

As an umpire, how do I know that a player is eligible/ineligible?  I'd be curious what that umpire based his decision on.  In my experience, I have NEVER gotten involved in a roster issue.  I have always directed those to the game administrator/tournament director/etc.

That's correct.  Just make a note that "#39 played in the game as F9 in innings 1-4 before being replaced by a sub".  Depending on the process in your state, make a proactive report to the state (or conference if ti's some conference rule like "a player may not play in the JV game and the V game on the same day") or just be prepared to answer the question if asked.