But He Has To Slide! (R1 into a force at 2B)

[Velho]

A @MadMax commission (since he has time to keep up on all these games  )

Great video from yesterday's glorious elimination of the Yankees TOR-NYY game. R1, 1 out, F3-F6 putout with R1 staying up.

How do we think about this across rulesets?

NCAA - FPSR violation? If so, why?

NFHS - Interps have tried but failed to clear this up I believe?

OBR - No called here. Any past OBR contrary examples?

LL - Legal. R1 only out if overtly interfering such as waving their arms like the 10 yr old kid that they are.

 

[No sound for your benefit (and I'm on a different machine) but darn you Max for making me listen to Dave Sims. As a Mariner fans that's just cruel.]

Click the video below to see the play. If you want the full source it's 11:12 of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUhuZA7OhzM

 

 

 

[TheLovejoy]

I think you're talking about the 9:30 mark double play. From what I can see where the runner is, he's peeling off (slightly) in the grass. So perhaps it was just deemed that he peeled off and gave up that lane to the fielder.

So, I'd have no violation in any rulesets

[Velho]

2 minutes ago, TheLovejoy said:

I think you're talking about the 9:30 mark double play. From what I can see where the runner is, he's peeling off (slightly) in the grass. So perhaps it was just deemed that he peeled off and gave up that lane to the fielder.

I posted the applicable snippet in OP (lmk if it won't play for you). It's from 11:12 timestamp of the YouTube clip.

[TheLovejoy]

4 minutes ago, Velho said:

I posted the applicable snippet in OP (lmk if it won't play for you). It's from 11:12 timestamp of the YouTube clip.

Oh oh I got it now. I just played the link that sent me to the game highlights, and saw that was the first double play where the runner didn't slide. I didn't click the snippet first. It worked.

The only OBR ruleset I do is American Legion: American Legion does have an adopted rule that addresses this the same way as the NCAA, so it would be a violation there as well.

NCAA this would indeed be a violation. No throw is required, nor even a double play attempt is required. 

I believe in NFHS this would still be a violation. (I'm actually less sure about the FED rule, as I don't do High School often around here). 

Since little league follows OBR as it's default with the little league modifications, I'd assume this also wouldn't be interference unless he did actions that stopped F6 from continuing through with an attempt.

These are my answers: 🤪

[The Man in Blue]

I don't have a violation in any rule set because the BR had already reached first base before the put out occurred at second.

(NCAA see the Exception; NFHS requires the non-slide to be an effort to prevent a double play)

[834k3r]

On 10/9/2025 at 11:01 AM, Velho said:

[No sound for your benefit (and I'm on a different machine) but darn you Max for making me listen to Dave Sims. As a Mariner fans that's just cruel.]

That said (gif'd?), I do like Aaron Goldsmith's calls. I hope he continues when the M's broadcasts move to MLB.tv from Root Sports next season.

[JSam21]

Violation in NCAA and NFHS. 

NCAA, in order for the exception to the FPSR to be in effect, R1 needs to be safe, they weren't so its a violation.

NFHS, the runner never has to slide, but if they choose to not slide and there is a defender at the base making a play, they must veer away from the base. 

[JSam21]

On 10/10/2025 at 9:54 PM, The Man in Blue said:

I don't have a violation in any rule set because the BR had already reached first base before the put out occurred at second.

(NCAA see the Exception; NFHS requires the non-slide to be an effort to prevent a double play)

What part of the exception applies here? Did the runner arrive at the base before the ball?

Here is the full wording:

 

"A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides or runs in a direction away from the fielders to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. The umpire my use judgement due to the unusual nature of a play such as when a runner does not slide and is safe at the base before the throw arrives or slides directly to a base from a position not in a direct line between bases, as long as there is no issue with safety or interference. Interference shall not be called."

[DevildogUmp]

On 10/10/2025 at 10:54 PM, The Man in Blue said:

I don't have a violation in any rule set because the BR had already reached first base before the put out occurred at second.

(NCAA see the Exception; NFHS requires the non-slide to be an effort to prevent a double play)

@The Man in Blue Can you provide an interpretation where NFHS requires "an effort to prevent a double play" on a FPSR violation?

Neither 2-32-2f (illegal slide definition) nor 8-2-2 (FPSR) reference a requirement that the runner attempt to prevent a double play. All that is required is that a force is in effect.

 

[The Man in Blue]

NCAA

"A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides or runs in a direction away from the fielders to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. The umpire my use judgement due to the unusual nature of a play such as when a runner does not slide and is safe at the base before the throw arrives or slides directly to a base from a position not in a direct line between bases, as long as there is no issue with safety or interference. Interference shall not be called."

The exception applies to plays of an unusual nature.  "Such as" does not mean "only in this case."  Was there a safety issue?  (No.)  Was there interference?  (No.)  Did the runner make contact?  (No.)  Did the runner alter the play of the fielder?  (No.)

NFHS -- contrary to their backdoor assertions, NFHS does NOT have a force play slide rule.  Search the rulebook and you will find the term does not exist in there.  NFHS is very explicit: "Runners are never required to slide..."  NFHS is aware that more injuries happen in the amateur game from improperly performed slides.

NFHS has a rule that a slide must be legal, and has issued directives on what a runner can do to avoid a potential interference call.  Please explain to me what he is interfering with when F6 is moving away from the bag and not making a play.

 

 

[JSam21]

16 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

NCAA

"A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides or runs in a direction away from the fielders to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. The umpire my use judgement due to the unusual nature of a play such as when a runner does not slide and is safe at the base before the throw arrives or slides directly to a base from a position not in a direct line between bases, as long as there is no issue with safety or interference. Interference shall not be called."

The exception applies to plays of an unusual nature.  "Such as" does not mean "only in this case."  Was there a safety issue?  (No.)  Was there interference?  (No.)  Did the runner make contact?  (No.)  Did the runner alter the play of the fielder?  (No.)

NFHS -- contrary to their backdoor assertions, NFHS does NOT have a force play slide rule.  Search the rulebook and you will find the term does not exist in there.  NFHS is very explicit: "Runners are never required to slide..."  NFHS is aware that more injuries happen in the amateur game from improperly performed slides.

NFHS has a rule that a slide must be legal, and has issued directives on what a runner can do to avoid a potential interference call.  Please explain to me what he is interfering with when F6 is moving away from the bag and not making a play.

 

 

NCAA- The defender has to avoid the runner by moving, if the defender doesn't do that, we have contact. That is both an issue with safety and interference. 

 

NFHS- It is in the case book. 8.4.2 Situation Y

For your 2nd part, using the same situation given above, the ruling state, "While a runner is never required to slide, if they choose not to slide, the runner must veer away from the base if the fielder is there attempting at play." This runner did not veer away from the base, there is a defender there attempting a play, it is a violation.

 

[DevildogUmp]

23 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

NFHS has a rule that a slide must be legal, and has issued directives on what a runner can do to avoid a potential interference call.  Please explain to me what he is interfering with when F6 is moving away from the bag and not making a play.

 

 

In NFHS, the grabbing the 2nd out of the B/R is more a penalty out to discourage crashing the fielder at the base. The penalty for 8-2-2 specifically directs the out of the B/R for the runner failing to slide legally or veer and does not allow the umpire to take into account whether a double play was possible:

"The runner is out. Interference is called and the ball is dead immediately. On a force-play slide with less than two outs, the runner is declared out, as well as the batter-runner."

[The Man in Blue]

I will agree that NFHS is trying to accomplish NCAA rules . . . what they are failing to do is actually write those rules.

I'm not saying you can't get there, I'm saying that is not what is written.

[The Man in Blue]

On 10/16/2025 at 2:03 PM, JSam21 said:

This runner did not veer away from the base, there is a defender there attempting a play, it is a violation.

 

We see this play differently.  I do not see a fielder making a play.  I see a fielder who made a play.

[johnnyg08]

I think we should get this in NFHS. There's case play support.