Third to First

[Urgone]

NFHS rules:  Runners on third and first.  Pitcher legally steps towards third and makes a hard feint.  His pivot foot leaves the pitcher's plate on that movement.

Can he now turn and  feint to first ?  Have heard some concerning views that because he did not disengage that pivot foot behind the pitcher's plate he can't feint to first.

[Tog Gee]

A pitcher can naturally disengage the plate by picking off (and by pitching).

A RHP pitcher can even step with the free foot towards third and just keep running towards third. Say, if the runner has a huge lead.

So, if they disengaged on a pick off, they're not a pitcher anymore and they can feint anywhere.

 

I'm looking to see if a case play clearly supports this or if it's interpretation/culture. Searching this web site should reveal a consensus that leaving the plate on a pickoff allows for feinting to first. 

If a pitcher remains engaged with the plate after a feint to third, that's another story. But I never seen it happen.

 

Edited June 12 by Tog Gee

[jimurrayalterego]

2 hours ago, Urgone said:

NFHS rules:  Runners on third and first.  Pitcher legally steps towards third and makes a hard feint.  His pivot foot leaves the pitcher's plate on that movement.

Can he now turn and  feint to first ?  Have heard some concerning views that because he did not disengage that pivot foot behind the pitcher's plate he can't feint to first.

 

1 hour ago, Tog Gee said:

A pitcher can naturally disengage the plate by picking off (and by pitching).

A RHP pitcher can even step with the free foot towards third and just keep running towards third. Say, if the runner has a huge lead.

So, if they disengaged on a pick off, they're not a pitcher anymore and they can feint anywhere.

 

I'm looking to see if a case play clearly supports this or if it's interpretation/culture. Searching this web site should reveal a consensus that leaving the plate on a pickoff allows for feinting to first. 

If a pitcher remains engaged with the plate after a feint to third, that's another story. But I never seen it happen.

 

In all codes a legal feint, which only requires a step toward the base, with the pivot foot coming off the rubber, is a legal disengage and makes the pitcher an infielder who can feint anywhere. When the third to first was allowed in OBR/NCAA they required the pitcher to break contact with the rubber before he could throw or feint to 1B. NFHS allows for the  awkward move of remaining engaged but does not allow a feint to 1B if that ever happened. Confirmed in the 2013 interps when the other codes disallowed the 3-1:

SITUATION 8: With runners on first base and third base, the pitcher legally steps toward third and feints a throw. With his pivot foot now off the pitching plate, the pitcher turns and feints a throw to first base. RULING: This is a legal pick-off play by the pitcher. (6-2-4a,b)

SITUATION 9: With runners on first base and third base, the pitcher legally steps toward third and feints a throw. With his pivot still engaged with the pitching plate, the pitcher turns and feints a throw to first base. RULING: This is a balk. While engaged with the pitcher’s plate, the pitcher may not feint toward first base. The runner from first is awarded second base and the runner from third is awarded home. (6-2-4a)

[Urgone]

Thanks J and Tog Gee for your insight and especially the 2 case plays.  I've tried to convince the

fringe thinker on this simply with 6-2-4-a which is pretty straight forward "Balk....is touching the pitcher's plate...any

feinting toward....first base"   If your pivot foot is NOT touching the pitcher's plate you can feint to first. Period.

Now I'm fearful their next response will be what about a legal jump turn then from 6-1-3.  Can we feint to first ?

If we throw to first and it goes out of play are we awarding one or two bases ?  I was always mentored by the old salts

that in a jump turn he's still considered a pitcher NOT an infielder.   

[jimurrayalterego]

12 minutes ago, Urgone said:

Now I'm fearful their next response will be what about a legal jump turn then from 6-1-3.  Can we feint to first ?

If we throw to first and it goes out of play are we awarding one or two bases ?  I was always mentored by the old salts

that in a jump turn he's still considered a pitcher NOT an infielder.   

From 2019 MLBUM:

60.

"(i) It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pickoff move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pickoff move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base."

[noumpere]

41 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

From 2019 MLBUM:

60.

"(i) It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pickoff move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pickoff move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base."

FED has similar interps (I'm away from the books so I can't cite them)

[Velho]

45 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

1 hour ago, Urgone said:

Now I'm fearful their next response will be what about a legal jump turn then from 6-1-3.  Can we feint to first ?

If we throw to first and it goes out of play are we awarding one or two bases ?  I was always mentored by the old salts

that in a jump turn he's still considered a pitcher NOT an infielder.   

From 2019 MLBUM:

60.

"(i) It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pickoff move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pickoff move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base."

Further, in regards to disengaging first, it has to be a discrete action. A jump tune like movement that takes the pivot foot back is not a proper disengagement. From @Senor Azul here in an older post on this topic:

Here is how George Demetriou explains it in his 2019-2020 edition of the College Baseball Rules Study Guide (p. 140):

Once the pitcher has assumed either position, he may switch to the other only by first properly disengaging the rubber (stepping off). To be legal, the first movement must be the pivot foot in a rearward direction (9-1a5). The pivot foot must be placed on the ground behind the rubber before the free foot is moved or his hands are separated (9-1e Note).

Well shown here.