Have you ever balked this?

[834k3r]

R2; other runners don't matter. F1 disengages legally and throws to F4, who's still at least 8 feet from 2B. I had never seen this until this year, but now I've seen it three times in 2 weeks.

How many of you are balking this under 6.02(a)(4) or related NFHS rule (too lazy to look it up right now)?

[BigBlue4u]

15 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

How many of you are balking this under 6.02(a)(4) or related NFHS rule (too lazy to look it up right now)?

This is a judgment call.  If the umpire judges the throw is an attempt to retire a runner, it's nothing.  Otherwise, it's a balk.

[jimurrayalterego]

14 minutes ago, BigBlue4u said:

This is a judgment call.  If the umpire judges the throw is an attempt to retire a runner, it's nothing.  Otherwise, it's a balk.

 

32 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

R2; other runners don't matter. F1 disengages legally and throws to F4, who's still at least 8 feet from 2B. I had never seen this until this year, but now I've seen it three times in 2 weeks.

How many of you are balking this under 6.02(a)(4) or related NFHS rule (too lazy to look it up right now)?

If he disengaged he can throw anywhere as an infielder and it wouldn't be a balk unless you perceived intentional delay of the game which I wouldn't in the OP.

Are both of you not aware that if you can legally feint to a base while engaged then you also can throw to a fielder off that base if there is a runner and the pitcher steps legally?

[Replacematt]

2 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

This is a judgment call.  If the umpire judges the throw is an attempt to retire a runner, it's nothing.  Otherwise, it's a balk.

This is not a balk in any set of rules.

[noumpere]

3 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

This is a judgment call.  If the umpire judges the throw is an attempt to retire a runner, it's nothing.  Otherwise, it's a balk.

Nope.  It's a rules issue.  If you know the rule, you won't balk it.  If you don't know the rule, you might.

[grayhawk]

6 hours ago, 834k3r said:

R2; other runners don't matter. F1 disengages legally and throws to F4, who's still at least 8 feet from 2B. I had never seen this until this year, but now I've seen it three times in 2 weeks.

How many of you are balking this under 6.02(a)(4) or related NFHS rule (too lazy to look it up right now)?

He could be 30 feet from the base and it's still nothing (except in NCAA where it would be a clock violation).

[Biscuit]

The reason that throwing to a 1st of 3rd baseman who is away from the bag on a pick off is a balk is because that is interpreted as a feint/not a direct throw to a base. However, in this case, it is not a balk for at least two reasons. First, he legally disengaged, thus it is not a pick off move. Even to first or third, this is not a balk. Second, the prohibition against fainting is only applicable at first and third*. As this play was to second, a feint IS legal, and thus this is legal (except, as Grayhawk said, where pitch clocks make it illegal). 

*High School still, inexplicably, allows for the feint to third. So, this play would actually be legal ro second even if engaged.

[johnnyg08]

It is impossible to balk to 2B. (I know, I know...don't nitpick) From a teaching standpoint it's best to start with this concept. 

Don't balk this in any rule set. 

[BrainFreeze]

RHP with an inside leg turn steps towards 2B for a pickoff attempt.

Still engaged with his pivot foot, there is no one covering 2B so he throws to F4 who is about 15 feet to the 1B side. 

Isn't the pitcher required to throw directly to the base?  There was a balk early in the MLB season where RHP threw towards F5 who was well off the base and a balk was called. 

OP's situation is different, F1 disengaged end of story.  

( I am painfully aware of "it's impossible to balk to 2B", but for some of us the dream lives on...  )

[jimurrayalterego]

22 minutes ago, BrainFreeze said:

RHP with an inside leg turn steps towards 2B for a pickoff attempt.

Still engaged with his pivot foot, there is no one covering 2B so he throws to F4 who is about 15 feet to the 1B side. 

Isn't the pitcher required to throw directly to the base?  There was a balk early in the MLB season where RHP threw towards F5 who was well off the base and a balk was called. 

OP's situation is different, F1 disengaged end of story.  

( I am painfully aware of "it's impossible to balk to 2B", but for some of us the dream lives on...  )

If you can feint to a base from the rubber you can throw to a fielder off the base.

[BrainFreeze]

2 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

If you can feint to a base from the rubber you can throw to a fielder off the base.

Thank you for the clarification.  Very helpful.

[Richvee]

28 minutes ago, BrainFreeze said:

Isn't the pitcher required to throw directly to the base?

Step directly to a base. Throw to 1B and 3B (1B only in FED)

28 minutes ago, BrainFreeze said:

There was a balk early in the MLB season where RHP threw towards F5 who was well off the base and a balk was called. 

OBR/NCAA 3B is treated like 1B

FED 3B is treated like 2B

[Side Retired]

Maybe not the place for this but in high school varsity ball, I remember our ace pitcher had a tell. With runner on second he would always look at second twice. Only twice not even just one time. always twice. A team we played picked up on it and they started going for third after the second look a couple times before our guy fgured it out. Finally, our guy looked back home the second time with a runner going and someone maybe his dad yelled at him to look at second again right when he lifted his leg to go home. He did but the runner was already going to third, so our guy threw to third who was way back off. No where near the bag. The runner stopped and went back to second and the umpire called it balk. Sent the guy to third. This was a while back, maybe before the legally disengage stuff was added but I don't know for sure. I always thought we got screwed because the runner clearly started to go but then went back to second.

[JimmyK]

I am sorry, I hate baseball myths, and so may I ask what rule you are using to state:

"If you can feint to a base from the rubber you can throw to a fielder off the base."

I, in no way, am trying to start anything, I just need to know.

Thanks.

[jimurrayalterego]

3 hours ago, JimmyK said:

I am sorry, I hate baseball myths, and so may I ask what rule you are using to state:

"If you can feint to a base from the rubber you can throw to a fielder off the base."

I, in no way, am trying to start anything, I just need to know.

Thanks.

You do need to know. The applicable rule in OBR is 6.02(a)(2) which prohibits feints to first or third but not second. But if you still have doubts we can cite the Major League Baseball Umpire Manual (MLBUM) which has interps and clarifications for their rules. My Bold:

"60. BALK REGULATIONS

Rule 6.02(a):

A balk shall be called audibly (“Balk!” or “That’s a balk!”) and by pointing laterally at the pitcher. However, the ball is not dead automatically when this call is made. The ball becomes dead only when the umpire calls “Time” following the call of balk, and the call of “Time” is to be made only when play stops (i.e., when it is apparent that all runners including the batter-runner will not advance one base).

REGULATIONS:

(a) The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to a fielder who is either in front of or behind first or third base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at that base. However, there is no violation if the pitcher throws the ball directly to first or third base in this situation. (Also see next paragraph in this section.)

(b) There is no violation if a pitcher attempts a legal pickoff at second base and, seeing no fielder covering the bag, throws to a fielder, who is neither in the vicinity of the bag nor making an actual attempt to retire the runner."

NCAA is the same as OBR. High School still allows feints to 3B also.