Balk Caused by Coach of the Pitcher

[MHS]

In extra innings, we had runners on 2nd and 3rd.  Opposing pitcher starts his wind up and then opposing coach leaves dugout attempting to get a timeout, but after the pitcher's throwing motion had started.   All 3 umpires call a balk, then 40 minute conference with calls to other umpires by cell phone.   Umps change original call and do not issue a balk so runner does not score.   We end up not scoring and losing in 12th inning.   Can the umpires overrule a clear balk that was caused by their own coach calling a timeout after the windup has started?  

[Velho]

11 minutes ago, MHS said:

opposing coach leaves dugout attempting to get a timeout, but after the pitcher's throwing motion had started....

Can the umpires overrule a clear balk that was caused by their own coach calling a timeout after the windup has started? 

Can you clarify which coach came out of the dugout? Offense or defense?

Given the post title, I'll guess you mean the defensive coach. This will be level dependent. What age are we talking about?

 

If the umpire judges that the offense induced what would otherwise be a balk, they are to stop play. Examples include the batter asking for but not getting timeout, batter leaving the box, offense yelling time, or third base coach moving to distract.

There is no pitch, the behavior is addressed as needed, we reset, and then put the ball back in play to resume play.

 

[MHS]

Coach on defense, was attempting to call late timeout after his own pitcher started his throwing motion

[Velho]

Just now, MHS said:

Coach on defense, was attempting to call late timeout after his own pitcher started his throwing motion

What age / level was this? (I edited my post after seeing the title. So no, you didn't ,miss anything. I baited and switched you

[MHS]

Varsity High school Baseball in State Quarterfinal Game

[Velho]

That's a rough one. Really hoping you'd say 10U, in which case we'd say no pitch and admonish the coach (who generally doesn't know any better).

A 40 minute delay likely means it went to the top of the state NFHS authorities (curious, what state?).

NFHS rule 3-3-1-n says "A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not call "Time" or use any command or commit any act for the purpose of causing a balk". That's the rule used in regards to remedying offensive action I stated above. I can understand that not feeling appropriate to be applied to defensive personnel but the language doesn't limit it to solely the offensive behavior. Speculating, that may be where the ruling to "no pitch, no balk" came from.

Was there any warning or ejection of the coach?

Not very satisfying, I know. And we'll see what other, more experienced umps have to say as they weigh in.

Also, not what anyone wants to hear when they go through this, and I'm sure you've heard/said it (not sure your role in this), but this is part of the lesson we learn from sport. Sometimes things don't go our way. Sometimes rule are unclear and/or people get it wrong. These are life lessons that can build stronger people.

[The Man in Blue]

The question you asked is can they?  Yes.

You didn't ask the right question, though.

Should they?  No.  They had the correct call.

Should this have required them to get together to consult?  Absolutely.

Should they have required 40 minutes and multiple phone calls?  Probably not.

[Velho]

Seems it was this Mansfield High in MA. I see it is under active protest. Let us know how that turns out.

"Currently, the game is under protest due to a reversed balk call in the top of the 11th, which prompted an over-30-minute delay in the inning. The reversed call took a run off the board for Mansfield."

https://www.thesunchronicle.com/sports/h-s-baseball-hornets-drop-marathon-quarterfinal-ousted-from-tourney/article_8a6dc803-322b-4d39-88e4-09071f489c0e.html

[The Man in Blue]

2 minutes ago, Velho said:

NFHS rule 3-3-1-n says "A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not call "Time" or use any command or commit any act for the purpose of causing a balk". That's the rule used in regards to remedying offensive action I stated above. I can understand that not feeling appropriate to be applied to defensive personnel but the language doesn't limit it to solely the offensive behavior. Speculating, that may be where the ruling to "no pitch, no balk" came from.

 

I'll take the other side, @Velho.  While the rule does not say it is only for the offense, you have to ask yourself about that purpose piece.  It is safe to assume the offense is the intended recipient of this rule because they obviously benefit from a balk.  Unless you can show me how the defense would benefit, I cannot bring myself to believe the defensive coach had this intent.  I'm letting his ignorance be the lesson for him and his team. 

[Velho]

1 minute ago, The Man in Blue said:

While the rule does not say it is only for the offense, you have to ask yourself about that purpose piece.

I'm with you. I was seeking to understand how it could be ruled the way it was*.

Don't get me wrong, at the OP level, that's on the defensive coach. They need to own it.

* Though, in practice the rule is used for offensive inducement whether "for the purpose of causing a balk" or not, e.g. a batter that wanted time for dust in their eye and pitcher stops pitching motion.

[MHS]

There was no punishment for the coach.   It was the Mansfield vs Walpole game yesterday in MA.   We asked for a protest when the decision is made but we don't expect any changes and we will all move on.   Just was curious as I could not find this addressed in any rulebook and it seems like it could happen on occasion and should be included in the Federation rulebook.  In basketball, a time out without possession is ignored and you play on and a timeout attempt with no timeouts left leads to a technical.  In this case, no balk AND no penalty for the coach just doesn't seem right in such a crucial situation.    You don't want to win on an RBI by a balk but rules are rules, and unfortunately we left a ton of base runners on base in extra runnings and that ultimately did us in.    Thanks for all the input, just really wanted to know if there was an existing rule that applied to this situation as we could not find anything related to the defensive coach causing the balk.  It was a great high school baseball game and it's too bad it's being overshadowed by this one incident.    

 

[Tog Gee]

That original balk call was correct.

 

[Velho]

7 minutes ago, MHS said:

It was a great high school baseball game and it's too bad it's being overshadowed by this one incident. 

Love this as the takeaway. Good on ya.

[Tog Gee]

1 hour ago, MHS said:

We end up not scoring and losing in 12th inning.

Were you home? Would it have been a balk-off win?

[Velho]

8 minutes ago, Tog Gee said:

1 hour ago, MHS said:

We end up not scoring and losing in 12th inning.

Were you home? Would it have been a balk-off win?

According to the article they were visitor. Play in question was top of the 11th.

[MHS]

Visiting team so they would have had a chance to tie it up in bottom half or win it.   "Balk off Win' is a good line though

We were just talking and if the defensive coach yells time out after the wind up when a player is stealing a base, my guess is  the umpires would afford the runner the stolen base.   There has to be some consequence for a defensive coach disrupting the flow of the game by calling a late timeout.  I do believe in this case, however, that the coach was not trying to disrupt the game or gain an advantage, and certainly not trying to cause a balk for his own pitcher, he just used poor judgement on the timing of his request for a timeout and then all hell broke loose trying to sort it out.    

[Tog Gee]

50 minutes ago, MHS said:

the coach was not trying to disrupt the game or gain an advantage, and certainly not trying to cause a balk for his own pitcher, he just used poor judgement on the timing of his request for a timeout and then all hell broke loose trying to sort it out. 

Yes it was just a mistake.

[BigBlue4u]

7 hours ago, MHS said:

All 3 umpires call a balk, then 40 minute conference with calls to other umpires by cell phone.   Umps change original call and do not issue a balk so runner does not score.   We end up not scoring and losing in 12th inning.   Can the umpires overrule a clear balk that was caused by their own coach calling a timeout after the windup has started?  

Here is a situation begging for common sense.  The pitcher was apparently distracted and stopped his motion.  Kill the play, give the coach his timeout and caution him not to do that while the pitcher is in the process of delivering a pitch.

[grayhawk]

6 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

Here is a situation begging for common sense.  The pitcher was apparently distracted and stopped his motion.  Kill the play, give the coach his timeout and caution him not to do that while the pitcher is in the process of delivering a pitch.

I disagree. The offense shouldn't be penalized for the defensive coach causing his pitcher to start/stop. The balk was correctly called, and then incorrectly reversed. I think the protest should be upheld and the game be played with the run scoring.

[The Man in Blue]

@BigBlue4u . . . everybody is going to have their sliding scale of importance.  A run of the mill kids game where most of the players (and coaches) are still learning and we are trying to help them, I could maybe agree with you.

Post season in a high school state tournament, nah.  Coach needs to pay his penance for this stupidity.  It is no our job to save him from that at this level.

[Replacematt]

On 6/9/2025 at 5:18 PM, BigBlue4u said:

Here is a situation begging for common sense.  The pitcher was apparently distracted and stopped his motion.  Kill the play, give the coach his timeout and caution him not to do that while the pitcher is in the process of delivering a pitch.

Absolutely not. We would just be allowing a DC to bail their team out by screaming for time.