orangebird Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 Hi everyone! After 2.5 months of either working solo or working with high schoolers, I had the chance to finally work with my first adult, veteran umpire last night as a base umpire. There were no real issues, however, our postgame debrief included some feedback I was surprised by: he wanted me in C with 1st-and-3rd. My understanding from both my rec ball training and reading other material is B is ideal for 1st-and-3rd, under the assumption you want to be in a good position to see a possible 4-6-3/6-4-3 double play. I don't remember exactly how he explained preferring C, but his thought process definitely included wanting to be close to the lead runner. So...does anyone else believe in using C for 1st-and-3rd or did I simply work with a partner who doesn't agree with the industry consensus.
noumpere Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 There is (or was) a thought that BU should be closest to the lead runner. Most now have BU in B in your situation. I'd ask your local association. For the record, I think B is the correct choice here, with a *possible* exception if you know a team likes to try to pick off at third a lot. 1
ilyazhito Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 If there are 3 umpires, I would expect U3 to be at C with 1st and 3rd to be prepared for the potential steal of 2nd and the pickoff at 3rd. However, I don't expect U1 in a 2-umpire game to be there, because there might also be a pickoff at 1st base that he can't leave uncovered by being in C. 2
stevis Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 1 hour ago, orangebird said: Hi everyone! After 2.5 months of either working solo or working with high schoolers, I had the chance to finally work with my first adult, veteran umpire last night as a base umpire. There were no real issues, however, our postgame debrief included some feedback I was surprised by: he wanted me in C with 1st-and-3rd. My understanding from both my rec ball training and reading other material is B is ideal for 1st-and-3rd, under the assumption you want to be in a good position to see a possible 4-6-3/6-4-3 double play. I don't remember exactly how he explained preferring C, but his thought process definitely included wanting to be close to the lead runner. So...does anyone else believe in using C for 1st-and-3rd or did I simply work with a partner who doesn't agree with the industry consensus. Small or big diamond? Little League wants you in C with closed bases (stay close to the lead runner) but is standard B on 70'/90/ bases with leadoffs and steals. 2
orangebird Posted June 5 Author Report Posted June 5 11 minutes ago, stevis said: Small or big diamond? Little League wants you in C with closed bases (stay close to the lead runner) but is standard B on 70'/90/ bases with leadoffs and steals. 90 feet, first time working the adult sized diamond haha
stevis Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 11 minutes ago, orangebird said: 90 feet, first time working the adult sized diamond haha Yeah, that's an...unusual expectation then. 1
SeeingEyeDog Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 I've heard the argument that with R1 and R3 and R3 representing the winning or tying run and less than 2 outs, that in 2-man U1 "should" be in C in case R3 is caught in a rundown or there is a play back into 3B but...I do not subscribe to that argument... ~Dawg 2
Richvee Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 B. 1. Any argument about pickoffs to 3B are flawed. You may be farther away in "B", but your angle is fine. Whereas your look at a play back into 1B from "C" is suspect. 2. B starts you in better position for groundouts and plays at 1B. 3. On a base hit to the OF, PU has R1 into 3B. You have no need to be on the left side of the diamond. 4
Velho Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 1 hour ago, stevis said: Little League wants you in C with closed bases (stay close to the lead runner) To add: umpire in C on a 60' field is same distance from 1B (if not closer) than umpire in B on 90' field. And, with closed bases, the backpick to 3B is more likely than a backpick to 1B. Aanndd, R1 is going to be coming to 2B within a few pitches 90% of the time anyway. 5
834k3r Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 40 minutes ago, Richvee said: B. 1. Any argument about pickoffs to 3B are flawed. You may be farther away in "B", but your angle is fine. Whereas your look at a play back into 1B from "C" is suspect. 2. B starts you in better position for groundouts and plays at 1B. 3. On a base hit to the OF, PU has R1 into 3B. You have no need to be on the left side of the diamond. Who wants to bet the "veteran umpire" in the OP doesn't rotate on R1+R3 situations as PU? 3 1
MadMax Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 7 hours ago, orangebird said: I don't remember exactly how he explained preferring C, but his thought process definitely included wanting to be close to the lead runner. Funny. These are the same sort of guys who, with R3 only, in 2-man, go over to B so as to be closer to 1B for the (potential) play there. 🙄 #HaveYouReadAManual? For R1-R3, let’s break this down… There is much more potential of R1 stealing. If the F2 throws, he could throw to F5 at 3B, sure… for that, as @Richvee notes, the Angle 📐 at B is equitable to C… at least if you are in “proper” C. In those situations, actually, the amateur umpire typically has a tendency – because of a dearth of “possibilities” – to go too deep with C… too close towards 2B. This flattens the angle to 3B out considerably. It’s better to have both potential throws by F2 – to 2B or 3B – in front of you, and then cover what distance towards the target as you’re able, than to have to read-twist-&-read. As @Velho notes, more often than not, R1 is soon headed to 2B on a SBA / DI anyway. If a DSBA is on, it’s a better position to be in at B, with either a play put on R1 (while R3 breaks for home), or that throw by F2 is cut short by F4/6 and thrown to play upon R3… who’s, again, in front of you (off to your left)*, instead of behind you (behind your right shoulder if you were in C). Edit*: I need to clarify – R3 at 3B is off to your left when you drop step your right foot towards 2B with a pending throw by F2. If R1 is stealing 2B, he’ll be coming from your right shoulder, once you’ve drop-stepped your right foot, keeping chest to ball. So if throw goes to 2B, let it turn you, then crossover step to watch play there, or read that throw is going to 3B, and take as many aggressive steps directly towards 3B as you can, then stop to read and adjudge play there. 2
Velho Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 6 minutes ago, MadMax said: who’s, again, in front of you (off to your left), instead of behind you (behind your right shoulder if you were in C). Good points - and in small diamond we're outside so everything is in front of us (even if at oblique angles it's still in front). Plus, remembering now, we have leaving early responsibility which is orders of magnitude more important for lead runner. 2
The Man in Blue Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 @Richvee and @MadMax . . . thank you for the great descriptions. My logic when I started was typically: something wonky is more likely to happen at 3B on a tag, whereas 2B and 1B are more likely to be easier to see forces. Given that, I took the "stay with the lead runner" mentality. As I have progressed in what I call, I am more of a "read the room" guy. I will more often move back to B for the reasons you cite, but I do work with some wonky teams and will gravitate to C if they show a penchant or inclination to go for the wonky play. Now let me go back to this: 3 hours ago, orangebird said: Hi everyone! After 2.5 months of either working solo or working with high schoolers, I had the chance to finally work with my first adult, veteran umpire last night as a base umpire. 1 2
orangebird Posted June 5 Author Report Posted June 5 Gonna take those GIFs to mean you think a new umpire should've worked with a veteran adult sooner than June 4 for a season that started in mid-March? @The Man in Blue 2
The Man in Blue Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 55 minutes ago, orangebird said: Gonna take those GIFs to mean you think a new umpire should've worked with a veteran adult sooner than June 4 for a season that started in mid-March? @The Man in Blue You worked how? Till when? Who was in charge of this? Other UE members when you mention working solo around TMIB . . . 1 3
Richvee Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 1 hour ago, 834k3r said: Who wants to bet the "veteran umpire" in the OP doesn't rotate on R1+R3 situations as PU? That’s so on point!!! So much so, that when I have one of these guys on the bases in “C” with 1st and 3rd, I say “fine, you want to be on that side? Then I’m not coming up for R1 @third. You got it all. “ 😁🤷♂️ 3 1
834k3r Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 32 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said: You worked how? Till when? Who was in charge of this? Other UE members when you mention working solo around TMIB . . . Note to self: if someone ever creates a Kylo Ren-themed U-E account, it's likely a TMIB sock account. 1 2
MadMax Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said: You worked how? I see what you did there. Kylo Ren ← → Be(e)n Solo. “I’ve been solo… “ Well played. May the Force-out Be With You. 1 3
mw94 Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 Well Long Time Ago in an Umpire Galaxy Far Far Away, In the late 1980's the taught Pro Mechanic at Brinkman & Wendelstedt Umpire schools was C with 1st & 3rd But it was changed to B a few years later. 3 1
The Man in Blue Posted June 6 Report Posted June 6 you should never be in C-3PO without R2-D2. It is easy enough to handle a steal or a force play 1 1
834k3r Posted June 9 Report Posted June 9 On 6/5/2025 at 10:12 PM, The Man in Blue said: you should never be in C-3PO without R2-D2. It is easy enough to handle a steal or a force play 1 1
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now