10u ejections (travel ball)

[HumblePie]

Gentlemen,

First off, I am NOT seeking validation for my ejections, as this is a complicated scenario.  What I am seeking is a better way to handle this sort of cluster in the future.

10u travel ball ... actually at a relatively high level.  Balks are expected to be called pretty well straight up, but "straight up" to 10u coaches and two age 60+ umpires are worlds apart.  We're not gonna give warnings, but we're not gonna call every little flinch or 1/8 turn of a shoulder, and we explain all this at the plate meetings.

Also germain to the post, we explained politely at every plate meeting that we will not tolerate assistant coaches mouthing off from the dugout, or coming onto the field, or leaving the coaching boxes to object to a call.

 

Team black is running all over team green 10-0 in the 3rd inning.  Team green's pitchers have technically balked 6 or 7 times with no calls, and no objections from team black.  In the top of 3, team black's pitcher flinches, then steps off, and an assistant from team green starts yelling from the dugout.  Head coach in the 3B box does nothing to stop it.  I shut it down, and continue.  Next half inning, team green's pitcher jump turns to 1B and doesn't throw, and we both call the balk.  The coaches (5 of them) go ballistic in the dugout. I shut it down again, and the catcher stands there with his palms up looking up at me, with the ball in his hand, and won't turn around and resume play.  

I had a rapport with him, so I said, "Johnny, throw the ball back to Marcus."

Johnny - "That wasn't a balk, Blue!"

"Johnny, throw the ball back to Marcus. You can learn what a balk is at your next practice."

Head coach screams, "What did he just say to you?  Johnny, WHAT DID HE JUST SAY TO YOU?????"

Johnny - "He told me to shut up and throw the ball back."

5 coaches all come storming out of the dugout, mothers and grandmothers shriek, and if I weren't a 3rd dan, I'd have run for it.  I threw out the head coach and one assistant (Johnny's dad, as it turns out) and let the other three off the hook.  Johnny's dad went off on a profane tirade until the 25-yr-old tournament site director convinced him to leave.

And actually, there was no further incident, and the game ended after 4 1/2 innings with handshakes.

If I were training a young umpire, I would have advised him to forfeit the game after all 5 coaches came out like a gang, but at age 61, I figured I stepped into the bear trap of allowing Johnny to throw me under the bus ... just because he could ... (and because he's probably done it before).

[SH0102]

So many things to address…

First, let me start by saying I can only imagine how difficult the situation is in the moment. Much easier to offer advice in this setting, also this is just my 2 cents which might be worth less than that:

First, I realize 10u plays and needs umpires, but at age 61, you prob are good enough and experienced enough to not be doing 10u.  If I walked into a 10u game and saw 5 coaches (five???) for one team, I’d already know I’m in for a s***show.

Okay, to the game:

YMMV but I would never start a game with the plate meeting sharing all the things we expect to go wrong. Saying “if you think we blow a call please do this” or “we won’t be tolerating this and this today” sets the tone that there will be issues.  You’re in control, not them. If a situation happens, guide them to proper behavior or dump them if they won’t follow the lead.  Before a pitch is thrown, everyone is hearing about all the issues you expect (even just being proactive).  Also, not trying to be disrespectful, but you set that tone at the plate meeting and then proceeded to let assts scream and bark, (twice you said you shut that down) and then didn’t dump all of the assts that charged at you, only one.  So how meaningful was it to say all that at plate meeting?

Also, even though they’re lying sometimes, people say they just want consistency. They didn’t come unglued bc you called a balk, they did bc you didn’t balk the other kid and now you balked theirs.  You were trying to be fair, I get it, but they prob didn’t even realize you let several of their balks go before, they coach 10u, they aren’t baseball savants, all they know is you let one go for them and then banged their kid .  Again, you’re not wrong, you’re getting the big ones , but I think you’d be far better off just calling them like you would a HS game if it’s “that high level”. F em.  Even saying “we’re only calling the obvious ones” leads to arguments bc that’s subjective.

As for the catcher; this one kills me bc I love working with my catchers, but I do college and we don’t have that issue as much.  Best advice I can give is do not say anything to a 10 year old during a contentious situation. You didn’t know he would lie, how could you, but you did say the coaches came unglued and he was visibly frustrated/confused, that is not the time to be chatting with him. Throw the ball back to the pitcher yourself and get game going.

i had a conference tournament last week and a guy got ejected by one of my crewmates, and catcher asked me what I thought . I said “I’m not allowed to speak about ejections, sorry”.  Now, I’ve never seen that written, and I had an adult catcher, but a contentious situation calls for silence and more silence . It can’t be misquoted.  
 

If the catcher refuses to continue play he gets ejected.  

and it seems like we know where the catcher gets his attitude , his dad thinks you said “shut up” and is so mad about it he launches a profanity laced tirade, pot meet kettle…

Anyways, remember that at 10u, the kids are learning what’s appropriate. I hate all those balks but if the league/tourney/level wants and supports them being enforced , just enforce them.  If they hate how many are called bc they’re 10, maybe they’ll change the rule. But also they see what’s appropriate and not with behavior. Five coaches charge you , they’re gone, sorry kids , your game ended early bc your coaches act like they’re the ten year olds. Don’t “spare them” if they’re charging at you

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, HumblePie said:

Gentlemen,

First off, I am NOT seeking validation for my ejections, as this is a complicated scenario.  What I am seeking is a better way to handle this sort of cluster in the future.

10u travel ball ... actually at a relatively high level.  Balks are expected to be called pretty well straight up, but "straight up" to 10u coaches and two age 60+ umpires are worlds apart.  We're not gonna give warnings, but we're not gonna call every little flinch or 1/8 turn of a shoulder, and we explain all this at the plate meetings.

Also germain to the post, we explained politely at every plate meeting that we will not tolerate assistant coaches mouthing off from the dugout, or coming onto the field, or leaving the coaching boxes to object to a call.

 

Team black is running all over team green 10-0 in the 3rd inning.  Team green's pitchers have technically balked 6 or 7 times with no calls, and no objections from team black.  In the top of 3, team black's pitcher flinches, then steps off, and an assistant from team green starts yelling from the dugout.  Head coach in the 3B box does nothing to stop it.  I shut it down, and continue.  Next half inning, team green's pitcher jump turns to 1B and doesn't throw, and we both call the balk.  The coaches (5 of them) go ballistic in the dugout. I shut it down again, and the catcher stands there with his palms up looking up at me, with the ball in his hand, and won't turn around and resume play.  

I had a rapport with him, so I said, "Johnny, throw the ball back to Marcus."

Johnny - "That wasn't a balk, Blue!"

"Johnny, throw the ball back to Marcus. You can learn what a balk is at your next practice."

Head coach screams, "What did he just say to you?  Johnny, WHAT DID HE JUST SAY TO YOU?????"

Johnny - "He told me to shut up and throw the ball back."

5 coaches all come storming out of the dugout, mothers and grandmothers shriek, and if I weren't a 3rd dan, I'd have run for it.  I threw out the head coach and one assistant (Johnny's dad, as it turns out) and let the other three off the hook.  Johnny's dad went off on a profane tirade until the 25-yr-old tournament site director convinced him to leave.

And actually, there was no further incident, and the game ended after 4 1/2 innings with handshakes.

If I were training a young umpire, I would have advised him to forfeit the game after all 5 coaches came out like a gang, but at age 61, I figured I stepped into the bear trap of allowing Johnny to throw me under the bus ... just because he could ... (and because he's probably done it before).

This is why we don't tell players what to do outside of topics involving conduct. It's not our job to tell him to throw the ball back. If he wants to argue the balk, we have tools. If he wants to sit on the ball and not do anything with it, we have tools. 

[jimurrayalterego]

3 hours ago, HumblePie said:

Gentlemen,

 

Also germain to the post, we explained politely at every plate meeting that we will not tolerate assistant coaches mouthing off from the dugout, or coming onto the field, or leaving the coaching boxes to object to a call.

 

 

I'm going to try for Number 1 again. Haven't you been told not to do that at the plate meeting? 

[JonnyCat]

I barely talk to players. And I always keep the conversations short, professional, and to the point. I'm not interested in making friends on the field. Less is more.

But the biggest problem.....................................10u tournaments.

Also, I probably would have ejected the little bastard for saying that. Lying to the coach to start trouble? F*#K that, he knew what he was doing.

[BLarson]

I do a lot of tournament games 9-12 in USSSA.

It's typically mid to lower talent teams.
Local tournament rules don't mention anything about balks, so you assume straight up.
You're basically forced to talk about balks at the plate meeting, because most coaches want warnings, 1 per pitcher.
If I warn for one thing, the youngster will most likely keep doing it because they don't know any better or haven't been coached enough of what to do or not to do.

We just tell coaches we call balks age/level appropriate, if it affects play we'll call it.
We remind players to not to turn their shoulders, come pause during set better, etc...

Lots of umpires give warnings in tournaments, so when we show up, the coaches were:  "The umpires gave us warnings last night."
Me:  I wasn't here last night.

 

[The Man in Blue]

That’s how it works, coach.  Last night was Warnsday.  Today is Saturday, we’re playing ball.

[Kevin_K]

On 5/16/2025 at 7:31 AM, HumblePie said:

 In the top of 3, team black's pitcher flinches, then steps off, and an assistant from team green starts yelling from the dugout.  Head coach in the 3B box does nothing to stop it.  I shut it down, and continue.  

I might have a conversation between innings with their HC under the guise of looking at the lineup card and letting him know that if he does not take care of his dugout that I will.

[johnnyg08]

On 5/16/2025 at 12:50 PM, JonnyCat said:

But the biggest problem.....................................10u tournaments.

Also, I probably would have ejected the little bastard for saying that. Lying to the coach to start trouble? F*#K that, he knew what he was doing.

Yes and yes

[johnnyg08]

On 5/17/2025 at 8:21 AM, Kevin_K said:

he does not take care of his dugout that I will.

Yes...but be ready to do so...if they're already not taking care of their dugout, then you must do your job. 

My recommendation is to simply start taking care of their dugout. It's not like they don't already know...they're just expecting us to be passive. 

[Biscuit]

Based off of what you've written... I think you actually did a pretty good job. There probably is something you could have done earlier to set the tone, but it's hard to know based off of this alone. I don't have a problem with you telling the catcher to throw the ball back (though, why did he have the ball after a no throw balk?). I DO have a problem with the catcher lying. I'm I ejecting the catcher in 10u? Maybe. But if I didn't, I'd probably regret it later. That is an egregious thing for the catcher to say.

[BigBlue4u]

On 6/10/2025 at 7:55 AM, Biscuit said:

I DO have a problem with the catcher lying. I'm I ejecting the catcher in 10u? Maybe. But if I didn't, I'd probably regret it later. That is an egregious thing for the catcher to say.

Point taken.  I would also eject the catcher for lying.  The coach can believe whom he wants, but the catcher is done for the day.  And I would believe, that in the future, the catcher would think twice about lying about a situation.