Safe or out

[leroy77]

Under any condition is a baserunner safe when hit by a batted ball? This case runneris going from 2nd to 3rd. Disagreement is a person states if the fielder can't make a play on ball runner is safe, ball is live. I say runner is out no matter what. Who's correct? Thanks

[beerguy55]

Short answer is, there are definitely exceptions where the runner is NOT out when hit by a batted ball.

Easiest example is if the infield is playing in on the grass...the ball is hit past, for example, the shortstop, and hits the runner who was on second, he would NOT be out. 

 

OBR 5.09(b) A runner is out when...(7) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has gone through, or by, an infielder and no other infielder has a chance to make a play on the ball

 

Another exception would be if a runner is standing on a base and gets hit by an IFF.  In some rulesets, any runner standing on a base when hit, in any scenario, would not be out.

[noumpere]

Note that “past” and “through or by” are different concepts and apply differently in various rule sets. 
 

And, I don’t understand beerguy’s point about the infield fly (under various rules codes)

[jimurrayalterego]

3 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Short answer is, there are definitely exceptions where the runner is NOT out when hit by a batted ball.

Easiest example is if the infield is playing in on the grass...the ball is hit past, for example, the shortstop, and hits the runner who was on second, he would NOT be out. 

 

 

By “past” do you mean immediately through or by, where the fielder could make a play? Otherwise the runner would be out when hit by an untouched batted ball when the infielders were playing in. 
For the OP we have to qualify your and your person’s statements. A runner hit by an untouched batted ball is out unless it went closely through or by a fielder and another fielder did not have a play on that ball or unless it was an infield fly and the runner was on his base. 
Fielders playing in do not change how this rule is applied. 

[MadMax]

There are several examples from Major League games in which a come-backer at the pitcher either glances off him directly, or off the mound-ramp, off his body (typically foot, shin, leg, or hip), then caroms off to touch a Runner (typically R1) as he sprints towards the next base. In that case, the ball remains Live, and the ball can no longer be deemed to be a catchable ball. A fielder may still make a play on it (such as F4), as these video clips often expose, the lightning-fast reflexes of these professional players, but the Runner is not Out for that touch, in and of itself. 

1 hour ago, jimurrayalterego said:

Fielders playing in do not change how this rule is applied.

While "fielders playing in" doesn't change how the rule is applied, it does change how the rule is... perhaps... perceived(?) by amateur umpires. @leroy77 is saying as much when he declares this: 

On 4/21/2025 at 11:37 AM, leroy77 said:

This case runner is going from 2nd to 3rd. Disagreement is a person states if the fielder can't make a play on ball runner is safe, ball is live. I say runner is out no matter what.

This is a classic situation, wherein R2 is "in the valley" between a F5, in the "foreground" (in front of R2's base path), and a F6 ranging in the "background" (behind R2's base path). The F5 makes a valiant attempt on that batted ball, diving and everything (but doesn't touch it; this is key), and it bounds under his glove. The ground ball then hits the R2. Where is/was F6? If he was playing/ranging behind, he has that opportunity to make a play on it, and with the ball now being touched by the R2, that opportunity is interfered with. "Time! That's INTerference! He's (R2) Out! You (BR) first base!" 

However, with the infield playing in, that (second) opportunity isn't at all likely. So a smash going under the glove of F6 or F5, playing in, and then touching R2 would be a "Play on, ball's Live". While you (Jimurray) do rightly say, it doesn't change how the rule is applied, the deployment of the fielders does change the preparation and judgement of the umpire(s). 

[beerguy55]

50 minutes ago, noumpere said:

And, I don’t understand beerguy’s point about the infield fly (under various rules codes)

Those are two different statements.  One about infield flies...one about any batted ball, even if it isn't an infield fly.

 

52 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

A runner hit by an untouched batted ball is out unless it went closely through or by a fielder and another fielder did not have a play on that ball or unless it was an infield fly and the runner was on his base. 
Fielders playing in do not change how this rule is applied. 

I'm trying not to confuse the poor lad  - the point was there are scenarios where the runner is not out, with a very high-level general example that could easily be visualized by a layman, without getting into the minutiae of what exact circumstances make it true or not true.

[Richvee]

26 minutes ago, MadMax said:

or off the mound-ramp

Are you saying a ball batted that deflects oddly off the mound hill and hits a runner is play on? Same as a batted ball deflected off the pitcher?

[MadMax]

3 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Are you saying a ball batted that deflects oddly off the mound hill and hits a runner is play on?

Noooo... you missed the sequential series of events... 

31 minutes ago, MadMax said:

or off the mound-ramp, off his body (typically foot, shin, leg, or hip), then caroms off

I propositioned them sequentially, not exclusively. 

This is why it's so important for a PU (especially) to track not only the pitch, but also the batted ball (to the best of his ability). If the batted ball hits off the ramp (in this case, or the pitching rubber, for another example) and bounds towards a convergence of R1 and F4, there are two signifiers: 1) it is no longer a catchable ball, and 2) the potential for INT (by Runner-touched-by-batted-ball) is ON. 
If the batted ball hits off the F1's body – without touching the mound or rubber at all – then there are two signifiers here: 1) it is a (potentially) catchable ball, but 2) the Runner is "off the hook" so-to-speak regarding INT of that Runner-touched-by-batted-ball variety (he still has to avoid INT upon a fielder). 

That's what I was saying, by that. 

[beerguy55]

4 minutes ago, MadMax said:

If the batted ball hits off the F1's body  then there are two signifiers here: 1) it is a (potentially) catchable ball, but 2) the Runner is "off the hook" so-to-speak regarding INT of that Runner-touched-by-batted-ball

Good clarification here for the OP - a batted ball that deflects off a fielder is still a batted ball...not understanding that could confuse/muddy a discussion about batted balls hitting runners.