is this an error or not

[John F]

bases empty, no outs, ground ball to SS who overthrows 1st.  Batter touches first on way through, turns towards second, scampers back to first while ball is being retrieved by catcher who throws it to pitcher who was now standing next to 1st base.  The batter in scampering back to first touches the base again, but slips off of the base and is immediately tagged by the pitcher and is correctly called out.   Does the SS still receive and error in the scorebook?  My thought is yes, because the batter did achieve 1st base, but in attempting to advance to second is put out.  The announcers for this game indicated that the out "erased" the error because the runner was out.  I have never heard of any error being "erased" except for when the coaches kid plays short.

[SeeingEyeDog]

I don't know if it's the correct answer, what with me being an umpire and all...but, yes, were I scorekeeping this game, I am awarding an error to F6 on this play, as described.

~Dawg

[Central Cal Umpire]

I think you got the gist of it right. It sounds like an E6 2-1 putout with the runner reaching before the out was made. I've come to realize - like a lot of people who have put on the umpire gear to learn the craft - a great many announcers, even regulars with plenty of experience don't know the rules of baseball even close to all that well. That includes a lot of ex-players. I would also think the official scorekeeper is almost certainly not asking the announcers for their opinions before etching things in stone.

[Velho]

This account cover scoring changes for anyone interested https://x.com/scoringchanges/status/1906085295306772615?s=46&t=AOQ1Fm8g0wf3pKFMpX9zRQ

[maven]

On 3/29/2025 at 12:36 AM, John F said:

bases empty, no outs, ground ball to SS who overthrows 1st.  Batter touches first on way through, turns towards second, scampers back to first while ball is being retrieved by catcher who throws it to pitcher who was now standing next to 1st base.  The batter in scampering back to first touches the base again, but slips off of the base and is immediately tagged by the pitcher and is correctly called out.   Does the SS still receive and error in the scorebook?  My thought is yes, because the batter did achieve 1st base, but in attempting to advance to second is put out.  The announcers for this game indicated that the out "erased" the error because the runner was out.  I have never heard of any error being "erased" except for when the coaches kid plays short.

This is an umpire forum. Better check scorekeeper-empire.com.

[grayhawk]

3 hours ago, maven said:

This is an umpire forum. Better check scorekeeper-empire.com.

 

[beerguy55]

Well, as long as scorekeeping is part of the official rule book...

Take the out away for a second...you have to explain how the batter reached first base.  By hit or error impacts his batting average, the pitcher's WHIP...even something like a no hitter...and yes, fielding percentage.

If you ruled the batter would have been out with a clean throw, then it's an error.  And then, yes, he's out trying to advance.

Likewise, if you ruled the batter would have reached first anyway, it's a hit...and then out trying to advance.

Everything else being equal, you wouldn't erase the hit any more than you would erase the error.

 

Most baseball announcers are idiots when it comes to the rules - even (if not especially) the ones who used to play.   They really should have rules experts in the booth the way NFL broadcasts do.

 

Sometimes things aren't fair....here's an example...R1, I hit a clean shot to the outfield gap...

• Scenario 1 - R1 gets stupid, rounds second base too far, and gets thrown out diving back into second - I get a hit
• Scenario 2 - R1 gets stupid, decides to jog to second, and gets thrown out before reaching second - I get an oh-fer

[SeeingEyeDog]

4 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

They really should have rules experts in the booth the way NFL broadcasts do.

This...

And as with the yellow 1st down graphic that we have had on TV broadcasts for 30 years now, they still tell us the first time it's relevant, "...and we want to remind our TV audience that the yellow line is not official."

Why not say this for the strike zone box graphic on baseball telecasts, too? Nope...best let the plate umpires get fried because that's why people are here...

~Dawg