Bat Flip - EJ?

[grayhawk]

 

[Replacematt]

6 hours ago, grayhawk said:

 

I'm ejecting for this one. He took it up the line with him until he was in front of the opposing dugout. When we think about the two reasons for this rule (safety, sportsmanship,) and that he was waiting to do that until he could throw that bat up their ass, so to speak, we have a violation of the second one. 

[JonnyCat]

Did they eject him?

[GerryB]

Should have.

[Velho]

Doesn't appear to have been EJ. That batter had 4 ABs total and this was a 5th inning HR that made the game 3-3.

[The Man in Blue]

I don’t even care if it was in front of their dugout or his dugout.  Chucking the bat into the air like that is purely reckless.

Ejecting all day long.

[grayhawk]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

I don’t even care if it was in front of their dugout or his dugout.  Chucking the bat into the air like that is purely reckless.

Ejecting all day long.

Which would very likely be backed by your coordinator and all the way up the chain of command.

[MadMax]

On 3/22/2025 at 10:20 PM, grayhawk said:

Which would very likely be backed by your coordinator and all the way up the chain of command.

Here’s the crux we’ve reached – the players have driven us to do something about it. At every turn, we’ve (officials within collegiate baseball) tried to “plug the breach”, or contain the potential mess – HBP, FPSR, OBS/INT, bench jockeying, props… the works. It got so… particular at one point, we had Zero Tolerance on F-bombs (EJs! For real!). This relaxed to warnings… I can see why, I mean, how can we compete with Jomboy’s celebrated lip readings??! 

So we’re now down to bat flips. What amazes me, is these same coaches who want something done about it – and you can see it in the video, the DTHC is already coming out to get something done about it while the BR is still circling the bases!! – are, when their own player javelin-tosses a bat, can’t understand why you (umpire) are being so harsh, and how you don’t have a feel for the game! 

So was this addressed with (yet another) warning? 

[Richvee]

20 hours ago, MadMax said:

What amazes me, is these same coaches who want something done about it – and you can see it in the video, the DTHC is already coming out to get something done about it while the BR is still circling the bases!! – are, when their own player javelin-tosses a bat, can’t understand why you (umpire) are being so harsh, and how you don’t have a feel for the game! 

No different than any other rule...Check swing comes to mind. PU says "swing" on the coach's batter. .."You can't see that, you got to get help"

PU goes for help on a check swing while same coach is on defence...BU says no swing...."That's a swing...you shouldn't need help...you need to get that yourself" 

[dumbdumb]

19 minutes ago, Richvee said:

No different than any other rule...Check swing comes to mind. PU says "swing" on the coach's batter. .."You can't see that, you got to get help"

PU goes for help on a check swing while same coach is on defence...BU says no swing...."That's a swing...you shouldn't need help...you need to get that yourself" 

so you are saying/insinuating/strongly suggesting coaches do not call it both ways either, which is what they are constantly blaming us for, and crying that all they want is consistency. do they get fired or scratched for their own inconsistency.

[Richvee]

32 minutes ago, dumbdumb said:

so you are saying/insinuating/strongly suggesting coaches do not call it both ways either, which is what they are constantly blaming us for, and crying that all they want is consistency. do they get fired or scratched for their own inconsistency.

well, they're not supposed to be impartial

[concertman1971]

56 minutes ago, Richvee said:

No different than any other rule...Check swing comes to mind. PU says "swing" on the coach's batter. .."You can't see that, you got to get help"

PU goes for help on a check swing while same coach is on defence...BU says no swing...."That's a swing...you shouldn't need help...you need to get that yourself" 

D2 series this weekend, visible clock, teams are slow to come out EVERY inning, F2 told if he throws down, he will be subject to clock violation. Next half, HC is complaining that we are the "only" crew enforcing the clock and "NO ONE" has not let his guy throw down. 

THE CLOCK IS IN 2 SPOTS AND AT LEAST 2 FEET TALL!!! Rule has been around for 4 years now. Figure it out.

[The Man in Blue]

Oh, @concertman1971 . . . another "nails on the chalkboard" belief, IMO.  The pitcher has an allotted amount of time to throw up to an allotted number of warm up pitches . . . NOTHING grants the catcher anything.  Not in between innings, and not when a new catcher comes in.

[Replacematt]

On 3/30/2025 at 2:30 PM, concertman1971 said:

D2 series this weekend, visible clock, teams are slow to come out EVERY inning, F2 told if he throws down, he will be subject to clock violation. Next half, HC is complaining that we are the "only" crew enforcing the clock and "NO ONE" has not let his guy throw down. 

THE CLOCK IS IN 2 SPOTS AND AT LEAST 2 FEET TALL!!! Rule has been around for 4 years now. Figure it out.

I think there could be some lessons from this situation if you so chose to post it in the NCAA forum.

[Replacematt]

40 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Oh, @concertman1971 . . . another "nails on the chalkboard" belief, IMO.  The pitcher has an allotted amount of time to throw up to an allotted number of warm up pitches . . . NOTHING grants the catcher anything.  Not in between innings, and not when a new catcher comes in.

In NCAA as of this year, there is no limit on pitches (with one exception, not relevant here,) only time. There is something that makes me think there is something under the surface of this situation.

[grayhawk]

3 minutes ago, Replacematt said:

In NCAA as of this year, there is no limit on pitches (with one exception, not relevant here,) only time. There is something that makes me think there is something under the surface of this situation.

Not necessarily. I've had games like this where it takes F1 45 seconds to throw his first pitch. And then they aren't throwing down when there's only 30 seconds left and counting.

On the flip side, I had a D3 series this weekend where both teams were in and out fast, throwing only 5 pitches and F1's working fast (not even close to any clock violations).  The 3 games went 2:20, 2:17 and 2:15.

[Richvee]

I’m seeing  a mixed bag. 
Some teams throw their 5 and are ready in 1:20 or less, others will keep throwing until you tell them “30 seconds last one”. 

[Replacematt]

3 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Not necessarily. I've had games like this where it takes F1 45 seconds to throw his first pitch. And then they aren't throwing down when there's only 30 seconds left and counting.

On the flip side, I had a D3 series this weekend where both teams were in and out fast, throwing only 5 pitches and F1's working fast (not even close to any clock violations).  The 3 games went 2:20, 2:17 and 2:15.

Same, but that's not what I'm getting at. I'm thinking about the ecosystem of game management in that area regarding the new rule.

[grayhawk]

15 minutes ago, Replacematt said:

Same, but that's not what I'm getting at. I'm thinking about the ecosystem of game management in that area regarding the new rule.

Then don't be so cagey.

[Replacematt]

27 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Then don't be so cagey.

I'm not. That's why I pointed out that it could be posted in the appropriate section for further discussion. I don't know what I don't know yet.

[concertman1971]

10 hours ago, Replacematt said:

I'm not. That's why I pointed out that it could be posted in the appropriate section for further discussion. I don't know what I don't know yet.

they were just both really slow getting out, and wanting to spend their entire time throwing pitches. I know how to manage the clock between innings, but sometimes, teams are just slow/dont care, or the "last guy didnt enforce it"

[Replacematt]

22 minutes ago, concertman1971 said:

they were just both really slow getting out, and wanting to spend their entire time throwing pitches. I know how to manage the clock between innings, but sometimes, teams are just slow/dont care, or the "last guy didnt enforce it"

Yes, and I mentioned the ecosystem.

What is your conference/association mechanic for letting the teams know how much time is left? What has the conference mentioned about their streaming/television policies between innings?

[MadMax]

11 hours ago, Replacematt said:

In NCAA as of this year, there is no limit on pitches (with one exception, not relevant here,) only time. There is something that makes me think there is something under the surface of this situation.

Indeed, we've been directed to focus more on the time (2:00 Between Innings, or 2:30 IIPC), (much) less on the number of warmup pitches. If F2 and F1 want to discuss stuff, throw 4, discuss again – no worries, provided it happens within 2 minutes. If F1 wants to throw 6, 7, 9 warmups, sure go right ahead. At 30 seconds left, throw your last one and send it to 2B. Why this change in perspective? Advertising on breaks / commercials during broadcast or streamcast games. Rightly so, NCAA doesn't want pitchers standing around for 30 seconds to a full minute, waiting for the commercials to end. 

Most (nearly all?) college programs, regardless the size, have at least one idle/bullpen catcher on the roster, aside from the active one in the lineup. That guy is usually out there, warming up the returning pitcher, or the new pitcher, whichever the case may be. If I'm PU, I'm very cognizant of who the active F2 is (Adam?), and if Blake is out here, is he just filling in for Adam, or has Blake been subbed in for Adam? I'll tell Blake* to let F1 throw as many as he wants, just leave at least 1 for Adam. If that clock hits 30 seconds left (or my BU partner throws up his arm indicating 30 seconds left), and Adam still isn't quite out yet, I'll ask Adam* if he's good to go without a throw (down to 2B). An ultra-high percentage of the time, Adam is. Blake throws it and departs, Adam trots up, steps in, and away we go. 

* Aside: This is one of the primary reasons I, as PU, stand on the DT's side of the dirt-circle / foul-line "joint". I don't fret about "sniping" because I (carry the attitude that) don't get sniped (at least, I don't "hear" it). More often than not, the DT has to approach me for substitutions anyway, and from this position, it's much easier to interact with the F1, warmup F2, and/or the active F2. I'm looking straight across at the OTODC, and can observe if they have more than 2 hitters out (they shouldn't), and I can make eye contact with the leadoff hitter, and signal him with 2 or 1 pitch left, etc. 

In absolutely no way am I questioning @concertman1971 (Tim's), or anyone else's, game management. I myself am going to be more proactive about it, and establish up front that, "Hey, I know you guys don't want to be standing around all day. We've all got 2 minutes – you (DT) do, they (OT) do, we (umpires) do. Do whatever you want, but we gotta be ready to go when the 2 minutes are up." Just about every college game I've worked has either been broad- or streamcast, or it's been NAIA/JuCo, which means that I've either got a mandatory 2:00 minutes I have to wait, or the umpires are keeping the time on a timer. I think coaches get prickly when umpires are keeping the time, and it seems like the umpires are trying to "short-change" them... rushing through calls and procedures so as to get outta there as fast as possible. 

 

[Velho]

18 minutes ago, MadMax said:

If that clock hits 30 seconds left (or my BU partner throws up his arm indicating 30 seconds left), and Adam still isn't quite out yet, I'll ask Adam* if he's good to go without a throw (down to 2B). An ultra-high percentage of the time, Adam is.

What if he's not? "Would if I could Adam but we're on a clock. You'll need to get out here earlier next inning"? Or something else?

[Replacematt]

5 minutes ago, Velho said:

What if he's not? "Would if I could Adam but we're on a clock. You'll need to get out here earlier next inning"? Or something else?

Adam has options. Forgo the throw, or throw at the risk of starting with a 1-0 count. And that's what I'd communicate.