Did I miss an ejection?

[SeeingEyeDog]

17-18 year old, fall ball, prospect game, FED rules, 2-man. Pace of play wise, great baseball...competitively, mediocre baseball. Home team wins 15-2.

In the top of the 6th, the batter hits a deep line drive and tries for a triple. I'm on the bases and take him around, get into the cut at third and get a great look at the play. It's close and...he's out. As I turn to head back to A, the manager coaching at 3rd says, "Call it both ways! That's terrible! Get better!" I turn and get back to the cut, he's in the coach's box and I say, "Coach, that's a warning for disputing judgement and sportsmanship. If you continue, you will be ejected."

As I turn and head again back to A, I hear a player (there was only 1 adult with this team, the manager) from his dugout on the 3rd base side, "Holy eff, Blue! You need to change your effing tampon!" (He did not say eff...he said, The Word)

I looked into the dugout from about the C position and could not tell which player said it. I turned back to the coach and closed to within a few feet this time. As I closed on him, he was already moving towards his dugout with a completely horrified/embarrassed/appalled look on this face, holding out his hands palms up like he cannot believe what he just heard and shaking his head...he addressed his team and I waited for him. When he returned, I said, "Coach, what was said right there? That's ejection-able. However, since I cannot determine who said it, I am unable to issue an ejection. I am issuing a bench warning to your entire team and if we hear anything further untoward for the remainder of this game, that player or coach will be ejected." He was completely understanding and fully apologized and there was nothing further for the remainder of the game.

Obviously, I missed an ejection but, given the circumstances, I don't see how I could not have missed the ejection. I did consider the following on the way home...Would FED rules/common sense dictate that I could have said to the coach, "Coach, I'm ejecting the player that just said that but, I don't know who it was so, I need for you to go and talk to your team, figure out who said it and we will resume the game once that player has left the ballpark..." What do you have, brothers?

~Dawg 

[JSam21]

Someone has to go... Just turn around and give the mechanic. To the head coach, "Tell me who said it or you're the one going. You control your dugout so you're responsible for what comes out of it." 

[SeeingEyeDog]

26 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

Someone has to go... Just turn around and give the mechanic. To the head coach, "Tell me who said it or you're the one going. You control your dugout so you're responsible for what comes out of it." 

Yeah...and if I would have dumped him, Miller Time would have been earlier because they had no other coaches...#UmpireFoul...

~Dawg

[Kevin_K]

Shoot one monkey, and in this case it wouldn't matter which one, and the rest usually fall in line. Pick one from the general vicinity and get rid of him. Maybe you get the right one and maybe you don't. Sometimes a message needs to be sent and it needs to be received.

Some here will say this approach is inappropriate because the actual d-bag may stay in the game and the wrong kid is headed home. I couldn't possibly care less about that. Someone has to get dumped. Someone must be dumped.

[BigBlue4u]

9 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

"Coach, what was said right there? That's ejection-able. However, since I cannot determine who said it, I am unable to issue an ejection.

That is not true. There's a couple of things you can do.  1)  Just eject the coach immediately.  When he asks you why, your response is "For not controlling your team."  2)  Tell the coach he has a choice:  1) Identify the player, in which case the player will be ejected.  2) If he won't identify the player, tell him if he doesn't identify the player, he will be ejected himself for not controlling his team. Finally, don't beat yourself up for the non-ejection. That will happen once in a while. It also points up that old saying, "An umpire will regret not ejecting someone far more than he'll regret actually ejecting someone." Just remember that situations like this must be handled in such a manner as to leave no doubt about who is running the game.  In the overwhelming number of situations, a problem can be handled in a low-key manner.  This is not one of them.

[834k3r]

5 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

Pick one from the general vicinity and get rid of him. Maybe you get the right one and maybe you don't.

I can see value in this. If I ask the coach "who said that," a quick-thinking coach could pick the last guy on the roster and reduce or eliminate the pain of the EJ. Message is still sent.

[The Man in Blue]

12 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Yeah...and if I would have dumped him, Miller Time would have been earlier because they had no other coaches...#UmpireFoul...

~Dawg

 

I'm not sure how to read your comment, so I am hesitant to say this in case I am misreading your intent, but . . . I'll reply as if you are saying that was a reason NOT to eject.  (I suspect you aren't, but I keep reading it that way.)

SO WHAT.  

We have to stop coming up with reasons to NOT control the game and to keep contributing to the slide of the culture of the game. If the game gets canceled, the game gets canceled.

We currently have a couple of umpires who are taking heat because a school didn't pull the trigger on canceling a game due to weather.  The school insisted on dragging everybody out "in case they could play."  The umpires arrived, saw the field condition, received their checks, held the plate meeting, and promptly called the game off.  The coach was pissed and other coaches are now talking smack about "what those umpires did."

It is not our job to eat $#!+ in an effort make sure whiny men-children get to play.

We have got to get back to seeing the game as a privilege, not a right.

[834k3r]

100% until...

12 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

The school insisted on dragging everybody out "in case they could play."  The umpires arrived, saw the field condition, received their checks, held the plate meeting, and promptly called the game off.  The coach was pissed and other coaches are now talking smack about "what those umpires did."

I may be in the minority, but I think this is absolutely not the way to handle this.

I get that umpires control the field after the plate meeting, but if the HTHC (as directed by FED) thought the conditions were good enough to play up to the plate meeting, then the teams and the umpiring crew should at least try to make it work. It's a terrible look for umpires to call the game right after the plate meeting.

[Velho]

This

On 9/30/2024 at 5:07 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

the manager coaching at 3rd says, "Call it both ways! That's terrible! Get better!"

is why players think this

On 9/30/2024 at 5:07 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

I hear a player (there was only 1 adult with this team, the manager) from his dugout on the 3rd base side, "Holy eff, Blue! You need to change your effing tampon!" (He did not say eff...he said, The Word)

is ok.

In the moment you had, I'm not entirely sure how to address it, but the second is certainly a product of the first.

[SeeingEyeDog]

15 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

I'm not sure how to read your comment, so I am hesitant to say this in case I am misreading your intent, but . . . I'll reply as if you are saying that was a reason NOT to eject.  (I suspect you aren't, but I keep reading it that way.)

 

I'm not sure if this helps you or not but, my Miller Time remark was a very poor attempt at making a sarcastic, humorous comment about a serious situation...pointing the finger clearly at myself...and failing...

~Dawg

[The Man in Blue]

10 hours ago, 834k3r said:

100% until...

I may be in the minority, but I think this is absolutely not the way to handle this.

I get that umpires control the field after the plate meeting, but if the HTHC (as directed by FED) thought the conditions were good enough to play up to the plate meeting, then the teams and the umpiring crew should at least try to make it work. It's a terrible look for umpires to call the game right after the plate meeting.

I will admit I am torn on it.  I don't like the look, but when handed a mud-sandwich, what do we do?  Play till somebody gets hurt because the coach said it was OK?

The first games of our MS regionals saw rain from Sunday night through gametime Monday (like I said, 2.5 hours in a constant mist).  The only fields playing were turf; and even then we were wondering if they would be playable or too slick.

Our assignor confirmed three games that were going to try to play . . . all three ADs asked, "What happens if they get here and the field is too slick to play?"  The assignor gave the right answer: "That is up to them when they arrive.  Then you pay them and you pay the second crew that has to come back for the make up game."  One AD pulled the plug.  Two games played through (including mine), and we were utterly miserable (nobody cares) with the weather having an impact on the play in the games. 

[Velho]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

12 hours ago, 834k3r said:

I get that umpires control the field after the plate meeting, but if the HTHC (as directed by FED) thought the conditions were good enough to play up to the plate meeting, then the teams and the umpiring crew should at least try to make it work. It's a terrible look for umpires to call the game right after the plate meeting.

I will admit I am torn on it.  I don't like the look, but when handed a mud-sandwich, what do we do?  Play till somebody gets hurt because the coach said it was OK?

The few I've had when delusional coaches were trying to go, I all but told them if they hand the game to me, I'll call it. Never gotten far enough for them to see if I was bluffing (I wasn't).

[SeeingEyeDog]

On 9/30/2024 at 11:09 PM, The Man in Blue said:

 

I'm not sure how to read your comment, so I am hesitant to say this in case I am misreading your intent, but . . . I'll reply as if you are saying that was a reason NOT to eject.  (I suspect you aren't, but I keep reading it that way.)

SO WHAT.  

We have to stop coming up with reasons to NOT control the game and to keep contributing to the slide of the culture of the game. If the game gets canceled, the game gets canceled.

We currently have a couple of umpires who are taking heat because a school didn't pull the trigger on canceling a game due to weather.  The school insisted on dragging everybody out "in case they could play."  The umpires arrived, saw the field condition, received their checks, held the plate meeting, and promptly called the game off.  The coach was pissed and other coaches are now talking smack about "what those umpires did."

It is not our job to eat $#!+ in an effort make sure whiny men-children get to play.

We have got to get back to seeing the game as a privilege, not a right.

Hate to hi-jack my own thread but, I wanted to weigh in here...

FWIW, in my market, once we leave the house...it's half-fee. Once the first pitch is thrown...it's full-fee. That's IN our contracts with the leagues we work.

Our arrival protocol is to get there 45 minutes in advance of game time. If the field is questionable, if there is ANY question about the playability of the field...as soon as the umpires have arrived, we will walk down to the field, look at the field and speak with the coaches. Yes, until the plate meeting is over, it's the "home team's field" then it's the umpires' decision whether to continue the game or not.

This is very, very situational and very, very dependent on the HC, your relationship with him and their mood that day. My partners and I will assess the field prior to game time. If we don't feel the field is playable, we will tell the coach, "Coach, by rule it's still your field and your decision however, as the umpire I am telling you that this field is not safe to play on and if you don't call it, we will call it after the plate meeting." In most cases, the coach will say, "Ok, Blue...thank you for letting me know. Let's cancel for today."

Every once in awhile a Coach will say, "Thank you, Blue...as you can see, we have a crew of people out here working to get this field ready. Could we please re-assess the field after the plate meeting?" And we'll say sure...and then re-assess. If it's playable, we play. If not, we don't. They'll complain of course but, I'd rather have 50 parents and their team's coaches yelling at me that they can't believe we are "walking off the field" then to have just 1 parent of an injured player wanting to know why we let the game be played and now their kid is hurt. I'm a parent myself and I do not want that scenario...ever.

The fact that you are collecting payments at the plate complicates things...FINANCIALLY. It's not wrong to do that, it just makes things a bit more complex. Regardless, the protocol is the protocol. As a sports official, the umpire has a duty to all those inside the fences (including the umpires!) of pausing/cancelling play if the field is unsafe. But, work everything out contractually, prior to the season so, it's all in writing and everyone understands how unsafe fields will be handled...by coaches, by umpires and financially.

In closing, watch out for this scenario...(dark clouds ALL around us, electricity is in the air) "Coach, it's your field until after the plate meeting and my weather radar is showing VERY severe weather moving in. What would you like to do?" To which Coach said, "I hear you, Blue. The field is good. Let's play." We have the plate meeting. We have warmups. F2 brings it down to 2B. I put the ball in play. F1 delivers. It's in the dirt for ball 1 and...KABOOM! (thunder) followed by a HUGE lightning strike maybe a half-mile beyond the OF fence. I call time and announce we are under weather delay for 30 minutes. Rain is dumping. I exchange cell numbers with the coaches so we can keep in touch and by the time we get back to our cars, the coach has texted me that they are all going home. 1 pitch so...full fee. Sometimes, we take care of The Game. Sometimes, The Game takes care of us.

~Dawg 

[834k3r]

11 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Our arrival protocol is to get there 45 minutes in advance of game time. If the field is questionable, if there is ANY question about the playability of the field...as soon as the umpires have arrived, we will walk down to the field, look at the field and speak with the coaches. Yes, until the plate meeting is over, it's the "home team's field" then it's the umpires' decision whether to continue the game or not.

If the weather's been spotty, or continues to be spotty, this is 100% the case here as well. I like to arrive 60 minutes prior, and my partner and I will (and have) gone to HTHC first to check on the field conditions and what he's thinking. Then, to prevent visions of preferential treatment, I like to go visit the VTHC and let him know what we just talked about.