MLB Ejections 175-6 - Conroy, Miller (HOU x2)

[Lindsay]

HP Umpire Brennan Miller ejected Astros 2B Jose Altuve and 1B Umpire Chris Conroy ejected Astros manager Joe Espada (fair ball call; QOCN) in the top of the 9th inning of the #Astros-#Padres game. With two out and one on, Astros batter Altuve hit a 1-1 sinker from Padres pitcher Robert Suarez on the ground to third baseman Manny Machado to first baseman Donovan Solano, ruled a fair ball by HP Umpire Miller. Replays indicate that after contacting Altuve's bat, the batted ball touched Altuve's foot before bounding into fair territory, the call was incorrect. At the time of the ejection, the game was tied, 3-3. The Astros ultimately won the contest, 4-3, in 10 innings.

This is Chris Conroy (98)'s 2nd ejection of 2024.

This is Brennan Miller (55)'s 4th ejection of 2024.

Related Ejection: MLB Ejection 102 - James Jean (1; Jose Altuve) (6/30/24).

Official Baseball Rule 5.09(a)(7): "If the batter is in a legal position in the batter’s box, see Rule 5.04(b)(5), and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter or their bat shall be ruled a foul ball."

Fair/Foul in the Infield is not presently a reviewable play.

These are the 175th and 176th ejection reports of the 2024 MLB regular season.

This is the 87th manager ejection of 2024.

This is the 59th player ejection of 2024. Ejection Tally: 87 Managers, 29 Coaches, 59 Players.

This is Houston's 12/13th ejection of 2024, 1st in the AL West (HOU 13; OAK 8; SEA 7; LAA, TEX 6).

This is Jose Altuve's 2nd ejection of 2024, 1st since June 30 (James Jean; QOC = N [Fair/Foul]).

This is Joe Espada's 5th ejection of 2024, 1st since Sept 5 (Brian O'Nora; QOC = U [Replay Review]).

This is Brennan Miller's 4th ejection of 2024, 1st since July 1 (Pat Murphy; QOC = Y-c [Base Path]).

This is Chris Conroy's 2nd ejection of 2024, 1st since July 21 (Bob Melvin; QOC = U [USC-NEC]).

Wrap: Houston Astros vs San Diego Padres, 9/17/24 | Video as follows:

Alternate Link: Astros ejected for third game in a row as Altuve demonstrates foul ball with bare foot

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[dumbdumb]

why would you need a conference. unless the rules changed, any umpire that sees the ball hit off the batters foot/leg/etc exactly like in this play can call a foul ball. if it is not seen then it would not be called by any of the 4. conference is needless. but it is managements fault again for not making this a reviewable play. and it is managements fault for not installing the infrared technology that would catch this as show in the 2011 playoffs with layne as the PU. once again blame management of an 11 billion plus dollar industry.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, dumbdumb said:

why would you need a conference. unless the rules changed, any umpire that sees the ball hit off the batters foot/leg/etc exactly like in this play can call a foul ball. if it is not seen then it would not be called by any of the 4. conference is needless. but it is managements fault again for not making this a reviewable play. and it is managements fault for not installing the infrared technology that would catch this as show in the 2011 playoffs with layne as the PU. once again blame management of an 11 billion plus dollar industry.

I think it’s a mechanic not a rule. I commented the same on the YouTube video. CCS usually gets it right but when they don’t they rarely admit error. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

I personally pre-game this for exactly this reason. If it's pre-gamed and nobody calls foul in the box and it comes out fair...then...we have a fair batted ball. If the coach wants to come out on this and ask us to get together and again, it's been pre-gamed...this is a non-conversation starter. "Coach, we pre-gamed this. Nobody called foul in the box because nobody had that. We have a fair batted ball, and the putout was made at 1B."

Consider for a moment...nobody called it and you choose to get together? And upon getting together someone says, "Yeah, yeah...I totally had this! It was foul in the box!" ? Well #1, then why didn't you call it and kill it? And #2, how is this going to go when you reverse this call because someone on the crew after the fact says they have foul in the box?

As for the play in question here...as we frequently discuss, the TV viewing public is not seeing this from the umpires' perspectives. And the umpires (by rule as far as what is and is not reviewable...) are not seeing this from the TV viewing public's perspective. I do agree that this kind of play should be reviewable but, we're not discussing that at the moment...

~Dawg

[Jimurray]

10 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I personally pre-game this for exactly this reason. If it's pre-gamed and nobody calls foul in the box and it comes out fair...then...we have a fair batted ball. If the coach wants to come out on this and ask us to get together and again, it's

~Dawg

It should be pre-gamed but even if it isn't pre-gamed it's a standard mechanic which we expect no need to get together unless you don't trust the training your partner got. 

[dumbdumb]

4 hours ago, Jimurray said:

It should be pre-gamed but even if it isn't pre-gamed it's a standard mechanic which we expect no need to get together unless you don't trust the training your partner got. 

ewwwwww, Jimurray, just like that perfect positioning (not blocked out or straightlined) and a pulled foot request. ain't happening. if missed, it is missed, just like a pitch.

[BLWizzRanger]

12 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I personally pre-game this for exactly this reason. If it's pre-gamed and nobody calls foul in the box and it comes out fair...then...we have a fair batted ball. If the coach wants to come out on this and ask us to get together and again, it's been pre-gamed...this is a non-conversation starter. "Coach, we pre-gamed this. Nobody called foul in the box because nobody had that. We have a fair batted ball, and the putout was made at 1B."

Consider for a moment...nobody called it and you choose to get together? And upon getting together someone says, "Yeah, yeah...I totally had this! It was foul in the box!" ? Well #1, then why didn't you call it and kill it? And #2, how is this going to go when you reverse this call because someone on the crew after the fact says they have foul in the box?

 

Just one addition here....

One time, on the field and not bandcamp, my partner (BU) and I (HP) agreed to this.  Wouldn't you know that a ball hit a batter in the box and I didn't call it foul.  My partner didn't call it either.  When the coach came out to ask me to get help, I stubbornly refused to get help, explained we pregamed it, and I still had to restrict the HC to the bench (NFHS).  During the explanation, I referred to my partner a few times and he didn't give the impression that he had anything.  The addition is to make sure to pregame a signal or something to the partner that you have something to aid the conversation AND, if need be, go get help.  Don't be so stubborn that you won't get help.

My partner's reluctance to help out was that he thought I was going to call it and when I didn't, he thought too much time elapsed for him to call it.  I don't know when his timer started, but being referred to and seeing my partner is in an discussion that is getting heated, I know I would have at least helped to get the call correct.  In hindsight if I am put into that position again, I don't care if we pregamed it, I am going to my partner to confirm what he had.

[Velho]

4 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

My partner's reluctance to help out was that he thought I was going to call it and when I didn't, he thought too much time elapsed for him to call it.

I understand the elapsed time aspect, though think it's one of the ego / perception things we as umpires need to get over (not as if we'll be liked in the ned anyway).

I will speak to the BU hesitation to call it though. I'm about 50/50 on getting the close ones right. I've had ones that went down, bounced funny, and I was sure they got the BR - who promptly ran to 1B without any argument for BR or anyone else. The can be hard to get.

I suppose where I am now is: give the close ones a beat and see how BR reacts. If BR reacts in a way I believe*, and PU doesn't grab it, I'll come with it. Will I still freeze in analysis paralysis? Possibly - thus a pregame of "I've got info for you" signal (which I know some argue against).

 

* How is this coached these days? I've always believed you need to sell it (not fake it but sell it) if you're likely to be out on the ball in play. Paging @beerguy55 to speak for coaches.

[The Man in Blue]

I may be wrong since I don't call NCAA . . . but didn't they have a mechanic/directive a few years back that instructed BUs to wait to make that call.  Some crap about making the PU look bad if they beat him to it (or something like that).  

I could be dreaming that up . . . or somebody could have been feeding me a line.

[grayhawk]

14 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I may be wrong since I don't call NCAA . . . but didn't they have a mechanic/directive a few years back that instructed BUs to wait to make that call.  Some crap about making the PU look bad if they beat him to it (or something like that).  

I could be dreaming that up . . . or somebody could have been feeding me a line.

I've been working NCAA for 8 years and I have never heard of that. It's handled in pregame just like anywhere else.

[The Man in Blue]

Thank you, @grayhawk.  Probably some viral horsecrap that got shoveled by one of those high falutin’ College (capital C) umpires who had to work high school games with slackers like me.  😁

[dumbdumb]

20 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I may be wrong since I don't call NCAA . . . but didn't they have a mechanic/directive a few years back that instructed BUs to wait to make that call.  Some crap about making the PU look bad if they beat him to it (or something like that).  

I could be dreaming that up . . . or somebody could have been feeding me a line.

dang TMIB. here goes that word disdainment again on the ncaa baseball guys. lets just disdain on the guys doing t ball baseball that cannot get the baseball to stay on the t, and on the super slow pitch softball guys that cannot spit out illegal pitch quick enough when the pitcher tries bringing one quickly in with no arc at all.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, dumbdumb said:

 lets just disdain on the guys doing t ball baseball that cannot get the baseball to stay on the t, 

In a previous life as a T-ball dad I don't remember who put the ball on the T but I never saw it fall off. Later as an umpire I would very rarely fill in for T-ball but would when they had problematic coaches. I don't remember who put the ball on the T but it wasn't me. Aside, back then, three years of T-ball with no umps and lost every game, at least as we could figure out since both teams celebrated. Fast forward to first year minors. We were Apaches vs Aztecs. Game ends. Apache parents in stands looking back and forth at each other with a questioning look. "We won?" Times change.

[The Man in Blue]

Love that @Jimurray!

I actually created our local t-ball program back when I ran the rec league.  It was a lot of trial-and-error, but we found the kids actually did better NOT using the tee right away.  We gave them pitches and then the tee if needed.  When they moved up to coach pitch, those kids were ahead of the curve by quite a bit!

 

[beerguy55]

On 9/19/2024 at 11:42 AM, Velho said:

* How is this coached these days? I've always believed you need to sell it (not fake it but sell it) if you're likely to be out on the ball in play. Paging @beerguy55 to speak for coaches.

I'm not sure I can speak for all coaches, because I might be in the minority here...I coach "play to the whistle"...there is only one thing that makes a batted ball foul, and it's not the rulebook definition...it's the umpire saying "foul".  While you're there selling it you eliminated any shot at beating the throw.

I know that selling and faking are two different things, but there's a fine line between accentuating and flopping.

I think "most" umpires are not going to rule "it mustn't have hit him" just because the guy ran to first...no different than immediately running on a check swing U3K...I don't think the batter running influences the judgment for a swing/no-swing of MOST umpires.

The ump(s) either saw it or they didn't...if you're natural reaction is limping or yelling in pain, then maybe you get the call...but it's not a "sell".

[BigBlue4u]

On 9/19/2024 at 5:47 AM, BLWizzRanger said:

If the coach wants to come out on this and ask us to get together and again, it's been pre-gamed...this is a non-conversation starter. "Coach, we pre-gamed this. Nobody called foul in the box because nobody had that. We have a fair batted ball, and the putout was made at 1B."

Remember, the coach has the right to plead his case.  What would be the coach's reaction if you got your partner (crew) together and said, "Nobody had anything, right?" 

Then, without waiting for an answer, go to the coach and tell him, "Coach, I asked and nobody had anything."   It is a little gamesmanship.  But, think of the result.  The coach won't be pissed because he got the satisfaction from a final attempt to get it called.  Or he will be pissed because he'll always think he was denied an opportunity to get the call.  If I had the chance, and it was appropriate to the game situation, I'd go with door #1.

[Jimurray]

On 9/30/2024 at 5:28 PM, BigBlue4u said:

Remember, the coach has the right to plead his case. 

Yes he does and you tell him as @BLWizzRanger did. You do not appease coaches.