SeeingEyeDog Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 So, I'm working a 60+ men's league playoff game tonight. This is a league I have worked for several years but, tonight I heard something at the plate meeting that made me ask myself a lot of questions about the implications of this local rule mod. Questions, I am hoping all of you can help me answer as well as perhaps asking some additional ones, brothers... So, they run standard courtesy runners for F1 and F2 at anytime. Fine...ask for time, wait for time to be granted and then hustle in and hustle out, please. They also have a rule that allows for a maximum of THREE players to be identified as "injured" who may have the last batted out run for them. The plate umpire does not handle lineup cards for this league and I made sure to get the uniform numbers of those injured players for my records, in case there was any question later. Both managers also noted their injured players on their lineup cards that they exchanged. Here's where it gets weird... So, courtesy runners for F1 and F2 are treated like any other base runner with no additional considerations. If however, the team chooses to replace one of those injured players with another runner, that runner IS NOT permitted to steal UNLESS the pitch goes OUTSIDE of the dirt circle. Now, we had this twice tonight...We had R1 who was a runner for one of their three injured players who then stole 2B. The defensive team's manager asked for time, we granted time, he explained the situation and we reset the runner back to 1B. I had a strike on the pitch and that advanced the count to 0-1 and there was nothing else said. My question is...what if we have that "illegal steal" and the batter puts the ball into play? Should it be an immediate dead ball as soon as the runner tries to advance? Should it be adjudicated like the LL "leaving the base too soon on a steal"? What if F1 balks AFTER the runner starts advancing when it is illegal for them to do so? If the runner illegally advances and is putout on the play...then what? What else am I missing on this rule? Finally, if the league wants to have this rule...they really need to have those guys wearing a distinctive jersey apart from their teammates (like a libero in volleyball) or have them wear an armband or a helmet band of some kind to easily distinguish them as "someone who should not be stealing unless the ball gets outside the circle". But, that's another circus for another day...what do you have on this, brothers? ~Dawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velho Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 30 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said: My question is...what if we have that "illegal steal" and the batter puts the ball into play? Should it be an immediate dead ball as soon as the runner tries to advance? Should it be adjudicated like the LL "leaving the base too soon on a steal"? What if F1 balks AFTER the runner starts advancing when it is illegal for them to do so? If the runner illegally advances and is putout on the play...then what? What else am I missing on this rule? Obviously only the commissioner (or equivalent person/group) can answer that but, imo, only send him back if he successfully steals on a ball that didn't leave the circle. The rule as presented was "you can't steal" not "you can't get a good jump or lead off a lot". KISS (no offense meant on last S). Until they pin him to the base, let it play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noumpere Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 That's what I'd do. OR -- since it's just a large lead, let him be put out, even if he's standing on second.. That makes it more of a risk / reward type of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeingEyeDog Posted August 23 Author Report Share Posted August 23 Yeah, I have left a message with the commissioner. I wanted to come here and gather as much insight into potential angles on this rule so, I can cover it all in one phone call. I get what they are trying to do. Keep guys in the game which in a 60+ league might mean...keep the league viable. As people's bodies breakdown or injuries are sustained, if guys are forced to run every time they get on base a lot of guys would not be able to play. So fundamentally, not that it matters really, I support the rule. Without leagues and games, we get no slots. In most cases, rule mods come from the right place based on the needs of the players and the league. But, I don't think these part-time commissioners either do or are capable of the critical thinking associated with modifying the rules. ~Dawg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velho Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 2 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said: if guys are forced to run every time they get on base a lot of guys would not be able to play "I support this" - Billy Butler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLWizzRanger Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 I don't see it any difference than a hit and run being put on. Since we are making up rules.... If the runner takes off to get a jump on the play and the ball is missed on the swing, let him take second and then placed back to first.... BUT, this can only happen once per injured runner (and not batter) per inning, otherwise the runner is out if he touches second... PTOOMA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerguy55 Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 17 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said: My question is...what if we have that "illegal steal" and the batter puts the ball into play? Should it be an immediate dead ball as soon as the runner tries to advance? Should it be adjudicated like the LL "leaving the base too soon on a steal"? What if F1 balks AFTER the runner starts advancing when it is illegal for them to do so? If the runner illegally advances and is putout on the play...then what? What else am I missing on this rule? Unless this is a league where runners can't leave first until ball leaves pitcher's hand/cross plate this is impossible to do much about. If there are leadoffs allowed there is no "leaving too soon" equivalent - your only real standard is whether or not the steal is completed. I would add in this twist to make the rule not only a little more interesting, but more easy to administer - keep the ball completely live - to allow for hit and runs, pick off plays, and for the possibility of him getting thrown out trying to steal; keep the ball live, even if he successfully reaches the next base. With this caveat - unless the ball leaves the batter's circle, or his hit into play, he is only entitled to the base he occupied TOP as a safe haven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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