Indicate Fair Ball

[MT73]

I’m working my first S.C. State tournament and am being evaluated by my partner for future higher levels.

He’s the BU.

Situation #1–2 outs—low liner to F4

It looks to me like a catch but it’s very close to being trapped.

I assume my partner who is in the B saw it and am awaiting his call—turns out he’s awaiting mine.

We get together and he says, “Hey—it’s your call—what is it?”

I keep quiet but I’m thinking, “Damn—you were right there looking at it—you call it”

I finally rule it a catch.

(While his pitcher is warming up the offensive coach respectfully asks me if it was a trap.

I answer that it was close but from my viewpoint it looked like a catch.

He nods his head and says, “Fair enough”

 

#2 BU in A

Deep fly ball to RF for extra base hit—ball is 30 feet or so fair.

After the game my partner asks why I didn’t give him the fair ball signal.

I tell him that it wasn’t even close to being foul.

He responds that he couldn’t have known that so next time make the signal.

I tell him that had it been foul he would have heard it.

I’m thinking that that he should have pivoted to watch the foul line and allow me to take the runner around the bases but I keep my trap shut.

 

Anyway—is my partner being too picky or did I use improper mechanics?

 

[Velho]

Is this High School, Little League, or other? 60', 70', or 90'?

[ousafe]

My only feedback: it seems your pregame with your partner was lacking. You should have already discussed catch/no catch and F/F responsibilities (among many other things), so that you aren't wondering who has what in-game.

[Tborze]

54 minutes ago, MT73 said:

I’m working my first S.C. State tournament and am being evaluated by my partner for future higher levels.

He’s the BU.

Situation #1–2 outs—low liner to F4

It looks to me like a catch but it’s very close to being trapped.

I assume my partner who is in the B saw it and am awaiting his call—turns out he’s awaiting mine.

We get together and he says, “Hey—it’s your call—what is it?”

I keep quiet but I’m thinking, “Damn—you were right there looking at it—you call it”

I finally rule it a catch.

(While his pitcher is warming up the offensive coach respectfully asks me if it was a trap.

I answer that it was close but from my viewpoint it looked like a catch.

He nods his head and says, “Fair enough”

 

#2 BU in A

Deep fly ball to RF for extra base hit—ball is 30 feet or so fair.

After the game my partner asks why I didn’t give him the fair ball signal.

I tell him that it wasn’t even close to being foul.

He responds that he couldn’t have known that so next time make the signal.

I tell him that had it been foul he would have heard it.

I’m thinking that that he should have pivoted to watch the foul line and allow me to take the runner around the bases but I keep my trap shut.

 

Anyway—is my partner being too picky or did I use improper mechanics?

 

#1. Sometimes SH*# happens. As PU, you have to recognize when it does. Once there was no call by BU, come out big and make the call. The last thing you want to do is have a no call which makes it look like neither of you saw it. 
 

#2. A little nit picky. Not sure why BU going out or pivoting makes a difference. Either he does or doesn’t shouldn’t matter, just react and cover as needed. 
 

As a side, this is your first playoff game? 
Your responses should have been, “OK THANK YOU”!!!  
 

 

[grayhawk]

5 minutes ago, ousafe said:

My only feedback: it seems your pregame with your partner was lacking. You should have already discussed catch/no catch and F/F responsibilities (among many other things), so that you aren't wondering who has what in-game.

Maybe, but neither of those scenarios make it into my pregames (though the OP may be working at a different level).

To the OP: your partner isn't being picky, he's just being wrong. In a 2-man game, with BU in B and a ball hit to F4, BU has catch/no-catch. Why would BU give it up to PU when he's literally right there, and with the same angle as PU?

Giving the fair mechanic on a ball 30 feet fair isn't necessary and as you said, your partner should assume it's fair unless and until you verbalize foul. I assume this wasn't a trouble ball since he didn't go out, so unless your partner hears either "Jim, it's a catch" or "Foul" then he should just be doing his job watching the touch at first and for possible obstruction.

[JSam21]

If it isn’t close enough to the line for your partner to go out on, there is no need for a signal.

[Jimurray]

44 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

"Jim, it's a catch" or "Foul" then he should just be doing his job watching the touch at first and for possible obstruction.

I see a lot of guys on the way to the pivot watch the batter all the way down the line when they could be reading the ball before focusing on the touch. 

[grayhawk]

19 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I see a lot of guys on the way to the pivot watch the batter all the way down the line when they could be reading the ball before focusing on the touch. 

I think it’s a bi-product of guys doing the pivot rather than looking over the shoulder. The latter allows you to watch what’s going on in the outfield before you turn to look at the touch. 

[MT73]

2 hours ago, Velho said:

Is this High School, Little League, or other? 60', 70', or 90'?

Dixie Baseball.

Fed rules—80 foot bases.

[MT73]

2 hours ago, Tborze said:

#1. Sometimes SH*# happens. As PU, you have to recognize when it does. Once there was no call by BU, come out big and make the call. The last thing you want to do is have a no call which makes it look like neither of you saw it. 
 

#2. A little nit picky. Not sure why BU going out or pivoting makes a difference. Either he does or doesn’t shouldn’t matter, just react and cover as needed. 
 

As a side, this is your first playoff game? 
Your responses should have been, “OK THANK YOU”!!!  
 

 

Yes—I thanked him for his insights.

No—just my first DBB state tournament.

I umpired in NY for over 20 years before moving south.

I didn’t mention his 3 balk calls in the first game as PU and his two in game 2 as BU.

He called one because F1 turned his head—not shoulders or body—to 1B.

[Richvee]

6 hours ago, MT73 said:

He called one because F1 turned his head—not shoulders or body—to 1B

And this guy is evaluating you?🤦

I don’t think I could have resisted a wise ass comment when he asked me about the ball to RF. I think my reply would have been…” If you had doubts about it being fair or foul, why didn’t you go out? 
 

[The Man in Blue]

6 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Maybe, but neither of those scenarios make it into my pregames (though the OP may be working at a different level).

To the OP: your partner isn't being picky, he's just being wrong. In a 2-man game, with BU in B and a ball hit to F4, BU has catch/no-catch. Why would BU give it up to PU when he's literally right there, and with the same angle as PU?

Giving the fair mechanic on a ball 30 feet fair isn't necessary and as you said, your partner should assume it's fair unless and until you verbalize foul. I assume this wasn't a trouble ball since he didn't go out, so unless your partner hears either "Jim, it's a catch" or "Foul" then he should just be doing his job watching the touch at first and for possible obstruction.

 

Is that BU's call?  I'm not disagreeing it makes sense, but I was always taught the infield is PUs.  I like the idea of the BU taking it, just not what I had been taught.  (Not saying I was taught correctly.)

I've been eaten up on both ends, as PU and as BU on this one. 

As BU, I'm giving a beat to the PU.  If he isn't coming up with something quickly, I'll jump in.  Had that as PU last weekend -- I thought I had a catch, but I saw dirt fly up.  I paused a moment and my BU jumped in.  (He had a catch also.)

The one thing we don't want was what it sound like happened in the OP (maybe?) . . . NOBODY made a call.  You can get together afterwards to see if it was correct; do not get together afterwards to make a call though.

[Richvee]

21 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

Is that BU's call?

Yes

[The Man in Blue]

Thank you, @Richvee!

Which mythical tome is that?  (A jab at how hard it has become to get the "quintessential texts" . . . not a jab at you!)

[Richvee]

‘24 NCAA. You’ll find the same in FED and in Evan’s two man system book. 

[MT73]

Thank you to all.

[boyinr]

10 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Thank you, @Richvee!

Which mythical tome is that?  (A jab at how hard it has become to get the "quintessential texts" . . . not a jab at you!)

You can download the CCA Manual for free if you search.  I believe that is the reference that was posted by @Richvee

[Tborze]

20 hours ago, MT73 said:

Dixie Baseball.

Fed rules—80 foot bases.

 

20 hours ago, MT73 said:

Yes—I thanked him for his insights.

No—just my first DBB state tournament.

I umpired in NY for over 20 years before moving south.

I didn’t mention his 3 balk calls in the first game as PU and his two in game 2 as BU.

He called one because F1 turned his head—not shoulders or body—to 1B.

I wish I knew all this b4 I posted, otherwise I would have recommended you tell him to go      himself!  

[The Man in Blue]

21 hours ago, Richvee said:

‘24 NCAA. You’ll find the same in FED and in Evan’s two man system book. 

 

 

. . . and exactly why should I have to send NFHS another $10 for information they want me to use to work games their way?  Let's think about the logic here . . . 

 

[Richvee]

2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

 

. . . and exactly why should I have to send NFHS another $10 for information they want me to use to work games their way?  Let's think about the logic here . . . 

 

My association gave us a case book, rule book and manual. I would never buy FED mechanics manual. Any high school association that you pay does to should supply at least the casebook and rulebook. Some HS associations use CCA mechanics so the manual wouldn’t be needed by some. And the CCA manual is free download I believe. 

[JSam21]

13 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

 

. . . and exactly why should I have to send NFHS another $10 for information they want me to use to work games their way?  Let's think about the logic here . . . 

 

Don't... mainly because NFHS mechanics are terrible. 

[834k3r]

12 hours ago, Richvee said:

My association gave us a case book, rule book and manual.

Same, except we don't get the manual. I do wish the case book and rule book were full size instead of miniature.

[The Man in Blue]

I've posted it before, but our state gives us a rule book and a case book every other year.

Some of the clinicians receive a digital file with those and will have them bound together in a full size book, but then ask you for $20 for it anyway.  I've bought it a few times because it is nice to have the rule and case play pages together and in bigger format.  (Insert blind umpire joke here)

[Richvee]

33 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

I've posted it before, but our state gives us a rule book and a case book every other year.

Some of the clinicians receive a digital file with those and will have them bound together in a full size book, but then ask you for $20 for it anyway.  I've bought it a few times because it is nice to have the rule and case play pages together and in bigger format.  (Insert blind umpire joke here)

You can buy and download the rule and casebook...Buy it on one site, it appears on the app, in a very un-user-friendly format. Only decent feature is the search function. The app makes me re-sign in often, won't let me store a password or use face recognition...But hey, it's there if you want it. (I won't be renewing)

[grayhawk]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

You can buy and download the rule and casebook...Buy it on one site, it appears on the app, in a very un-user-friendly format. Only decent feature is the search function. The app makes me re-sign in often, won't let me store a password or use face recognition...But hey, it's there if you want it. (I won't be renewing)

Is it still on Kindle? That’s how I used to view it and it worked well.