Run scores?

[Tborze]

R2 2 outs. 
 

B4 singles to RF. Play at the plate is not in time, R2 missed HP. F2 throws to 2nd and retires B4. R2 comes back and touches HP. Defense appeals R2’s miss. 
 

Safe/Out?  
 

I don’t have my books to confirm. 
 

Thks

[TOMUIC]

Clearly stated in MLBUM, no run scores.

[Zachary]

1 hour ago, Tborze said:

R2 2 outs. 
 

B4 singles to RF. Play at the plate is not in time, R2 missed HP. F2 throws to 2nd and retires B4. R2 comes back and touches HP. Defense appeals R2’s miss. 
 

Safe/Out?  
 

I don’t have my books to confirm. 
 

Thks

I am also away, so do not have the exact rule, so may be a little off, but no run scores. Once the third out is made, R2 can no longer go back and touch home. But the defending team can still appeal for an advantageous fourth out, which it appears they did, which would negate the run. 

[maven]

15 minutes ago, Zachary said:

Once the third out is made, R2 can no longer go back and LEGALLY touch home. But the defending team can still appeal for an advantageous fourth out, which it appears they did, which would negate the run. 

FIFY.

[Zachary]

15 minutes ago, maven said:

FIFY.

Thanks, maven. The fact that R2 went back to try and touch home is probably (and oftentimes) the very reason the other team appeals. Good chance if the runner just went into the dugout there would have been no appeal, unless it was egregious. Gave the other team a free alert that he missed home.  

[Vegas_Ump]

OK here's a conundrum.  If the defense has not left the field--and the ball is otherwise not out of play--, they may attempt an advantageous fourth out.  But the offense cannot attempt to remedy a missed plate during the same time?  

I concede that if the defense appeals R2's violation, that counts and nullifies a run.  But I got from the OP that R2 attempted to correct his missing of home before the appeal.

R2 is assumed to have scored until an appeal is made.

I guess I am confused about the timing of each events (as if that matters.)

Everybody have a Happy Independence Day!

Mike

Veteran

[TOMUIC]

The timing of the events does indeed matter. The MLBUM clearly states that a runner cannot return to touch a missed base after the third out.

He might physically do so, but if the defense makes a proper appeal, he becomes “the apparent fourth out”.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Ump said:

OK here's a conundrum.  If the defense has not left the field--and the ball is otherwise not out of play--, they may attempt an advantageous fourth out.  But the offense cannot attempt to remedy a missed plate during the same time?  

Offense made the mistake so, while the Defense can get an out after three outs, the Offense can't get a touch after three outs. 

[Velho]

Deleted- It double posted again

[TOMUIC]

After there are three out, the only action that can take place is a fourth out appeal. No bases can be run (or missed), no runs can score,etc.
 

[maven]

4 hours ago, TOMUIC said:

The timing of the events does indeed matter. The MLBUM clearly states that a runner cannot return to touch a missed base after the third out.

He might physically do so, but if the defense makes a proper appeal, he becomes “the apparent fourth out”.

The appeal would be granted only if it is an advantageous fourth out, that is, a situation where granting the appeal nullifies the run. An appeal of another runner missing a base that does not nullify a run is pointless and not ruled on.

An advantageous 4th out is (briefly) apparent, as it supersedes and replaces the third out. At that point, it's an actual out (and the formerly third out is merely apparent).

[Jimurray]

6 hours ago, TOMUIC said:

After there are three out, the only action that can take place is a fourth out appeal. No bases can be run (or missed), no runs can score,etc.
 

Unless you are in a replay league and the smart manager has coached his team to keep playing after a close play. I can't remember the ruling but an MLB team made the fourth out in live action after an out at HP. It went to replay but I can't remember if the out at HP was overruled or it was not and made this conundrum moot.

[TOMUIC]

Good point Jim, replay does effect things in today’s game. 

[Velho]

13 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Unless you are in a replay league and the smart manager has coached his team to keep playing after a close play. I can't remember the ruling but an MLB team made the fourth out in live action after an out at HP. It went to replay but I can't remember if the out at HP was overruled or it was not and made this conundrum moot.

One example (may or may not be the one you're thinking of) was R2, 2 outs, groundball to F6, F3 Freeman (Dodgers, so last few years) thought he might have pulled his foot so fired to F5 for tag on lallygagging R2.

[Jimurray]

12 minutes ago, Velho said:

One example (may or may not be the one you're thinking of) was R2, 2 outs, groundball to F6, F3 Freeman (Dodgers, so last few years) thought he might have pulled his foot so fired to F5 for tag on lallygagging R2.

Interesting discussion here: False Fourth Out - Ball Stays Alive After Third Out | Close Call Sports & Umpire Ejection Fantasy League

[mac266]

Time play, no run.

[beerguy55]

53 minutes ago, mac266 said:

Time play, no run.

umm...what?