Obstruction anyone?

[Tborze]

May want to lower volume!!

[Velho]

She was safe so not sure I see what you're getting at @Tborze.

My only thought is PU could have been (fine, HAS TO BE) in a better location (and also work on not looking like he's trying to take of with the safe sign 😁)

[Tborze]

15 minutes ago, Velho said:

She was safe so not sure I see what you're getting at @Tborze.

My only thought is PU could have been (fine, HAS TO BE) in a better location (and also work on not looking like he's trying to take of with the safe sign 😁)

Did you not see the title?

[Velho]

42 minutes ago, Tborze said:

Did you not see the title?

Yes but maybe I'm being thick. Closest thing I see to OBS is U3 😁

F2 was fine. Started clean in fair territory and did good job of flipping to foul and staying clean without creating OBS. [smartass] Not that HP would know given his position [/smartass]

 

[grayhawk]

Not obstruction where I work, but I have no clue on softball rules. She backed up to field the throw and left a clear path to the plate for the runner. A couple of observations:

1. I really dislike how in softball, batters go on walkabout between every pitch.
2. PU has NO IDEA if there was a tag or not. He's looking right through the back of F2. 
3. At least U3 is looking down the line and has a better angle on the tag

[ErichKeane]

4 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Not obstruction where I work, but I have no clue on softball rules. She backed up to field the throw and left a clear path to the plate for the runner. A couple of observations:

1. I really dislike how in softball, batters go on walkabout between every pitch.
2. PU has NO IDEA if there was a tag or not. He's looking right through the back of F2. 
3. At least U3 is looking down the line and has a better angle on the tag

Yeah, PU was REALLY bailed out by having the catcher drop the ball.  That positioning is very very rough for that play.

[Tborze]

27 minutes ago, Velho said:

Closest thing I see to OBS is U3 😁

 

Now THAT was funny!  

[Richvee]

5 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Not obstruction where I work, but I have no clue on softball rules. She backed up to field the throw and left a clear path to the plate for the runner. A couple of observations:

1. I really dislike how in softball, batters go on walkabout between every pitch.
2. PU has NO IDEA if there was a tag or not. He's looking right through the back of F2. 
3. At least U3 is looking down the line and has a better angle on the tag

Unless softball is different, you left out PU making the fair/foul call. And where the heck is he going strolling up the 3B line??? 

[SeeingEyeDog]

As Jim McKay famously said, "...the thrill of victory and...the agony...of defeat." [queue Vinko Bogataj...]

Oh...and the umpiring was sub-optimal here as outlined above, yes.

~Dawg

[Richvee]

15 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Oh...and the umpiring was sub-optimal here as outlined above,

Too many videos proving the wrong guys are on the big games. It’s probably something that hasn’t changed in 50 years. Politics, friends, tenure, etc.  But now with video evidence of every game, perhaps it’s time to fix this. 

[Thunderheads]

9 hours ago, Richvee said:

Too many videos proving the wrong guys are on the big games. It’s probably something that hasn’t changed in 50 years. Politics, friends, tenure, etc.  But now with video evidence of every game, perhaps it’s time to fix this. 

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   it's appalling

[The Man in Blue]

18 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Not obstruction where I work, but I have no clue on softball rules. She backed up to field the throw and left a clear path to the plate for the runner. A couple of observations:

1. I really dislike how in softball, batters go on walkabout between every pitch.

 

The rules on obstruction (in NFHS) are not that different.  It is the penalties that differ. 

As for the play, F2's second set up was definitely in an "obstructing position" . . . before the runner was even to third base.  That is not obstruction, though I know some guys who would call it.  Don't be those guys.

#1 is not a softball thing (but the batter's boxes are narrower, so they have to step out! 🙄).  Softball has the same "keep one foot in" expectation.  Walkabouts happen when umpires let them happen.

[The Man in Blue]

11 hours ago, Richvee said:

Too many videos proving the wrong guys are on the big games. It’s probably something that hasn’t changed in 50 years. Politics, friends, tenure, etc.  But now with video evidence of every game, perhaps it’s time to fix this. 

 

Because, not even the trophy icon is enough for this post . . . 

 

[grayhawk]

17 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

The rules on obstruction (in NFHS) are not that different.  It is the penalties that differ. 

As for the play, F2's second set up was definitely in an "obstructing position" . . . before the runner was even to third base.  That is not obstruction, though I know some guys who would call it.  Don't be those guys.

#1 is not a softball thing (but the batter's boxes are narrower, so they have to step out! 🙄).  Softball has the same "keep one foot in" expectation.  Walkabouts happen when umpires let them happen.

Seems like umpires let it happen A LOT in softball. Even in the WCWS. This batter was a good 4 feet out of the box.

WRT being in an "obstructing position," she looks legal to me - completely in fair territory while the runner is rounding 3rd. Her left foot is just to the right of the f/f line.

Also, WTH is U4 doing? He's standing on the baseline and then moves inside as the BR is about the round 3rd. Once you point it fair (oops - PU points it fair? WTF?), get your ass to the outside for the potential play there or to view the touch. Unless this is a softball thing - no idea what's taught there.

[The Man in Blue]

10 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Seems like umpires let it happen A LOT in softball. Even in the WCWS. This batter was a good 4 feet out of the box.

WRT being in an "obstructing position," she looks legal to me - completely in fair territory while the runner is rounding 3rd. Her left foot is just to the right of the f/f line.

Also, WTH is U4 doing? He's standing on the baseline and then moves inside as the BR is about the round 3rd. Once you point it fair, get your ass to the outside for the potential play there or to view the touch. Unless this is a softball thing - no idea what's taught there.

 

Agree that umpires let it happen too much.  I would say in both, but I get what you are saying about softball.  With "slap hitting" softball batters are, shall we say "more active" than baseball batters, so I can see that softball umpires could be too accommodating.  As for the WCWS . . . we all know there is a difference between the high school game, the college game, and the college game on TV.  😋

As for saying a catcher is legal because they are in fair territory . . . ummm . . . the whole plate is in fair territory.  Just saying . . .  We can use that as a guide, but don't use it as the standard. 

U4?  I honestly don't know.  I've only worked a 4-umpire crew one time, and I was U2.  

[grayhawk]

7 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

As for saying a catcher is legal because they are in fair territory . . . ummm . . . the whole plate is in fair territory.  Just saying . . .  We can use that as a guide, but don't use it as the standard. 

 

Yes, but the BR is rounding 3rd which puts her path well into foul territory. She has access to the entire plate if F2 never moves. If this was a tag up situation with the runner coming straight in, then we may have an issue.

[Thunderheads]

5 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Yes, but the BR is rounding 3rd which puts her path well into foul territory. She has access to the entire plate if F2 never moves. If this was a tag up situation with the runner coming straight in, then we may have an issue.

Not directed at you Steve, ....but ......  Guys, ...........BR is rounding 3rd, ... WHO CARES where the catcher is right now.... right?!?!

[The Man in Blue]

1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

Yes, but the BR is rounding 3rd which puts her path well into foul territory. She has access to the entire plate if F2 never moves. If this was a tag up situation with the runner coming straight in, then we may have an issue.

Agreed, and that was where I was trying to go.  If the runner is coming in, from foul territory or not, the plate is in fair territory. (I disagree blanketly saying she has full access if the catcher stays there, but it depends how it unfolds and I get what you are saying.). You cannot just use “but the catcher is in fair territory” — you MUST look at the timing (and know the wording of your code).  

Like I said, I know guys who would call that with the runner rounding third (AND THEY ARE WRONG).

 

[grayhawk]

1 hour ago, Thunderheads said:

Not directed at you Steve, ....but ......  Guys, ...........BR is rounding 3rd, ... WHO CARES where the catcher is right now.... right?!?!

Well, we care where the catcher is setting up (and we better be peeking at him), but anyone who calls obstruction as the runner is rounding 3rd is...well...lacking training.

[Jay R.]

15 hours ago, Richvee said:

Unless softball is different, you left out PU making the fair/foul call. And where the heck is he going strolling up the 3B line??? 

At least in some jurisdictions PU in softball has all fair-foul calls.

I was pregaming a Bronco (50/70) baseball game with a guy who's certified by PIAA (PA high school) for softball and does some baseball. Was asking about mechanics and he said that all his softball games are two-man but PU has all fair-foul regardless of positioning. 

[The Man in Blue]

1 hour ago, Jay R. said:

At least in some jurisdictions PU in softball has all fair-foul calls.

I was pregaming a Bronco (50/70) baseball game with a guy who's certified by PIAA (PA high school) for softball and does some baseball. Was asking about mechanics and he said that all his softball games are two-man but PU has all fair-foul regardless of positioning. 

 

In a 2-umpire softball crew, generally PU does take all fair/foul because of the size of the field.  This gives BU a chance to move into position.  

Like I said, I don't know formal 4-umpire mechanics, but I doubt many do.  I would bet this crew defaulted (if U3 was expected to take the f/f call) to what they are used to doing on a daily basis.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

In a 2-umpire softball crew, generally PU does take all fair/foul because of the size of the field. 

Even in 2 man though on ground / bounding from the pane of glass to the umpire (yes, all 10-15 feet) is U1's call.

Overall, they reverted to 2 man instincts. It takes me an inning or two or fist 1-2 3/4 man games in a row to break that reflex. I also study the crap out of the manual ahead of any non-2 man game.

[834k3r]

2 hours ago, Velho said:

I also study the crap out of the manual ahead of any non-2 man game.

[johnnyg08]

On 6/6/2024 at 4:08 PM, grayhawk said:

2. PU has NO IDEA if there was a tag or not. He's looking right through the back of F2. 

Lucky the ball came out. 

[agdz59]

On 6/7/2024 at 6:30 AM, Thunderheads said:

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   it's appalling

Or maybe that's the best the associations can do.