Obstruction or No Obstruction?

[johnnyg08]

 

[maven]

Yes, that's OBS. Good call, weak mechanics.

Good call: F2 sets up in the base path and blocks the runner's access to HP. Not enough amateur umpires get this call.

Weak mechanics: it's not clear that he's ruling OBS. Point at F2 and verbalize "That's OBS!" then signal safe. Maybe do all that twice (it's a scoring play). 

[The Man in Blue]

Obstruction all day long and twice the rest of the time.

I don’t like the look of a safe call on these.  Call time, obstruction, and make the award.

Once again, why is PU so far away?

[Velho]

44 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Call time, obstruction, and make the award.

Under OBR that's explicitly the mechanic.

But in NFHS "When obstruction occurs, the ball becomes dead at the end of playing action and the umpire has authority to determine which base or bases shall be awarded the runners according to the rule violated." so don't we have to let the play come to a natural conclusion before calling Time?

 

[The Man in Blue]

Seemed like a natural conclusion to me.

[Tog Gee]

On 5/25/2024 at 3:00 PM, Velho said:

But in NFHS "When obstruction occurs, the ball becomes dead at the end of playing action and the umpire has authority to determine which base or bases shall be awarded the runners according to the rule violated." so don't we have to let the play come to a natural conclusion before calling Time?

True, and I've often wondered about this. Defense made a mistake, and the other runner, rounding second, might want to try for third. If F2 throws wild to F5, that other runner can score. In FED, calling time prematurely on OBS prevents the offense benefiting from another mistake/snowball fight.

But then, under FED, what would the umpire signal at the plate on the OBS? Call the runner out at home without calling time (can fix it all when play stops)? But then what if there's 2 outs? Call the runner safe and yell "He was obstructed!" so play can continue?

It seems in reality, under FED, most folks choose to kill this OBS play on the tag as if it was type A.

[Velho]

On 5/25/2024 at 1:56 PM, The Man in Blue said:

Seemed like a natural conclusion to me.

Yes, but... BR is on his way to 2B when the play at home happens and has great chance to get to 3B since it's uncovered (clip cuts off before we can see if he went or stayed at 2B)..

16 minutes ago, Tog Gee said:

But then, under FED, what would the umpire signal at the plate on the OBS? Call the runner out at home without calling time (can fix it all when play stops)? But then what if there's 2 outs? Call the runner safe and yell "He was obstructed!" so play can continue?

This is the part I'm still trying to grok.

Play happens, runner clearly tagged before reaching the base, umpire "That's Obstruction. Safe! That's Obstruction. Safe!" and let the play continue - including the fielder looking at you like an alien while the offense runs?

If that's the plan and it's on the teams to know and play on (same as uncalled Infield Fly) I'm good with that. Maybe I'm just being thick and that is the implicit plan that I haven't seen explicitly stated.

[Tog Gee]

2 minutes ago, Velho said:

"That's Obstruction. Safe! That's Obstruction. Safe!" and let the play continue - including the fielder looking at you like an alien while the offense runs?

Yup, I think that has to be the way to handle in FED. And say it quick. And since you don't call time the catcher can either stare at you/argue or turn his attention to the active runner like they should. It's their choice.

[Velho]

Just now, Tog Gee said:

6 minutes ago, Velho said:

"That's Obstruction. Safe! That's Obstruction. Safe!" and let the play continue - including the fielder looking at you like an alien while the offense runs?

Yup, I think that has to be the way to handle in FED. And say it quick. And since you don't call time the catcher can either stare at you/argue or turn his attention to the active runner like they should. It's their choice.

Yeah, thinking about it, that's also the mechanic for OBR when Type B'd protected runner is tagged out (though MLB PU called incorrectly called time - self admitted I believe) in World Series Cardinals game. I guess I have my answer, just need to implement it.

[Tog Gee]

The thing is, sometimes the situation might need some untangling and thought.

If R1 is obstructed between 1B and 2B, and then 15 seconds later they are thrown out at the plate, by 8 feet, do you more experienced umpires need a few seconds to judge that or is that an easy call? I'm asking if you need time to sort it out and decide if the OBS warrants granting R1 home?

[Velho]

56 minutes ago, Tog Gee said:

If R1 is obstructed between 1B and 2B, and then 15 seconds later they are thrown out at the plate, by 8 feet, do you more experienced umpires need a few seconds to judge that or is that an easy call? I'm asking if you need time to sort it out and decide if the OBS warrants granting R1 home?

And even that assumes HPU is aware a BU called OBS. Like this one that happened the other day in LL Softball regional

 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Yeah, thinking about it, that's also the mechanic for OBR when Type B'd protected runner is tagged out (though MLB PU called incorrectly called time - self admitted I believe) in World Series Cardinals game. I guess I have my answer, just need to implement it.

I think you have it backward. The Type 2 obstructed runner was tagged out before reaching the base he would have been awarded. In that case the MLBUM says to call time. I believe that PU said he should have called time and awarded HP instead of signaling safe.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

I think you have it backward.

You're right. Thanks. Should have killed it when the OBS runner was tagged out because of the OBS.

Related, interesting write-up / oral history of the play https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/10647034/mlb-2013-world-series-obstruction-call

For those that don't know the play