Jackrabbitslims Posted May 21 Report Share Posted May 21 Going through mechanics for 4 man game this weekend. All umpires typically work 2 man. Any advice on how to rim when covering 2nd and the best way to do it to be effective? All advice welcomed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH0102 Posted May 21 Report Share Posted May 21 29 minutes ago, Jackrabbitslims said: Going through mechanics for 4 man game this weekend. All umpires typically work 2 man. Any advice on how to rim when covering 2nd and the best way to do it to be effective? All advice welcomed! If you’re not used to 4 man I wouldn’t be trying to incorporate “advanced mechanics” as well. As a CWS umpire once told me, if you are on the inside you may not be in the best position, but you’ll never be in bad position. But to answer your question, rimming usually occurs when you’re on a slide (u3 went out with a runner in scoring position) AND the ball is hit to the left side of the outfield, AND it’s a sure double. If batter starts toward second and goes back to first, and you’re on outside, you’re in bad position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted May 21 Report Share Posted May 21 3 hours ago, Jackrabbitslims said: Going through mechanics for 4 man game this weekend. All umpires typically work 2 man. Any advice on how to rim when covering 2nd and the best way to do it to be effective? Yeah… Don’t. Think this thru… why do we rim for 2-man? So the BU can half go-out (on a fly ball) / half go-towards 2B in case it falls for a base hit. Why go towards 2B? Because BR may round 1B and go towards 2B. In 3- and 4- man, what do we have at 2B? Another (Base) Umpire, yes. So does U1 ever have to rim? No. Having 3- and 4- man crews makes movements much, much easier… and more effective. If you’re a U1, in A, then there are only 4 motions, or routes (I won’t say paths, because “path” implies that you must follow it; “route” implies there may be adjustments to get to your destination) that you will take: Two steps off line (2SO)* to watch play at 1B upon BR. Go out (on fly/trouble ball in your AoR). ”Sink” (in Foul territory), and goto HP if PU rotates away. Dash in (DO NOT RIM) as the start of and to enact a Push / Slide, taking BR towards 2B and displacing your fellow BU (typically in 3 man; rarely in 4 man). On that last point, if you are dashing / pivoting / coming in, it’s because one of your partners went out (on fly/trouble ball)… thus, you don’t have fly/trouble ball responsibility, and thus – you don’t have to rim!!! There! Simple! * – Oo! And because you have additional BUs “ahead” of you (as U1), you don’t have to angle out so far so as to allow you to take the BR to 2B on an overthrow. You can take 2SO… and even 2SO (or more) in foul territory, if the play warrants it (AKA “pressure”)!! How cool is that?! On an overthrow, stay with the ball! Bonus!: Ask if you want to know about positioning at A. In 4- man, your IP will never be inside (at B or C -type spots), and will be at one of three A “levels”, based on situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackrabbitslims Posted May 21 Author Report Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, SH0102 said: If you’re not used to 4 man I wouldn’t be trying to incorporate “advanced mechanics” as well. As a CWS umpire once told me, if you are on the inside you may not be in the best position, but you’ll never be in bad position. But to answer your question, rimming usually occurs when you’re on a slide (u3 went out with a runner in scoring position) AND the ball is hit to the left side of the outfield, AND it’s a sure double. If batter starts toward second and goes back to first, and you’re on outside, you’re in bad position Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackrabbitslims Posted May 21 Author Report Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, MadMax said: Bonus!: Ask if you want to know about positioning at A. In 4- man, your IP will never be inside (at B or C -type spots), and will be at one of three A “levels”, based on situation. What are the 3 levels of A? Normal 10-15 with no runner on 1st. Closer to 1st to watch the pickoff?--could use some advice on how to best setup for this. 3rd level...not sure what you mean...lining up the 1st base bag with a back pick? Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue4u Posted May 21 Report Share Posted May 21 I would also remind you that if you are the U2 in a three or four man crew you should be in B with a runner at second. In a two-man you would be in C. The reasoning is that while in the B, you have a clear view of the play in the event of a pickoff attempt by the pitcher. From the C you likely could be straight lined. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted May 21 Report Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, Jackrabbitslims said: What are the 3 levels of A? You reiterated the first one... With 1B unoccupied, or with R1 preceded by R2, with F3 playing behind / standard, becomes 10-16 feet down the line, roughly 4-6 feet further back than F3's depth The second one is, as you said... With R1, with 2B open, and F3 is holding / covering 1B. I teach, and myself use, a position that is quite close. I put my right foot on the RFL, with my left foot off the RFL, but on a line tangent to the corner of the 1B bag, and vectored towards the pitcher's plate and 3B. I am (roughly) square to the pitcher. I stay upright until the R1 departs from the bag, "opening the window" into which I drop HOK. Pickoff? I'm right there. Pitch? I swivel my head towards plate, and observe that very easily. If swung at, react accordingly. If catcher receives the pitch, and contorts to throw to 1B on a back-pick, react accordingly. It's easier to shift from a HOK stance right there, than to execute a bunch of read / "picture" steps on every potential back-pick because you have to gain distance and angle. Now, the third one is unique to a bunt situation (in 4-man), especially with R3 (only, in 3-man). A good PU will likely "give up (a share of) F/F" to his U3, because he potentially has a R3 headed towards him. So too, he will likely "give up (a share of) F/F" to his U1, because the departing BR may obscure his view if the ball is bunted towards 1B, and he not only has RLI to observe, but also R3 is coming from his left towards the plate. As such... In a bunt situation, with F3 playing in front (of the 1B-2B line), and especially if R3 is present, then you'll likely have extended F/F responsibility, have to be aware of tag (attempts) upon BR further away from 1B towards HP, aware of OBS (upon BR, especially if F3 and F1 converge; PU might be watching ball)... plus your likely play at 1B will either be a foot-race, or the F4 will wheel from your extreme right. There isn't a set distance, here, for your IP; instead, it has to be more of an attitude and posture of awareness, and be fluid. Be ready to react to how the Batter behaves. He may pull back, and hit the ball into right field; if he does, unless it's an obvious can o' corn, go out. This takes all of the F/F and catch/no-catch responsibility burden angst off the PU, and takes catch/no-catch "trouble" responsibility off the U2 (who will be inside, anyway, unless R3 only). I know, this last one is a lot. The TLDR point is – in this situation, you need to treat your IP as more preparative and dynamic than any prescribed, diagrammed location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackrabbitslims Posted May 22 Author Report Share Posted May 22 17 hours ago, MadMax said: I know, this last one is a lot. The TLDR point is – in this situation, you need to treat your IP as more preparative and dynamic than any prescribed, diagrammed location. The last one seems like a lot but good to keep in the back of my mind. Thank you for the help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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