The Man in Blue Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 NFHS has removed our ability or obligation to deal with fans. Today I had a head coach realize the potential unintended consequences (and power) of that. JV double-header. I had two different partners because they added the second game just a few days ago. My second partner is an older guy who is in his first year. This was his 8th game. I asked what he needed more work on; he said the plate. It was not good, but that's a story for another day. In the 5th inning of a game that was feeling long due to some calls that were . . . well, again, story for another day. In the 5th inning, the HTHC was chewing on my partner pretty good (deserved or undeserved). I came in to play rodeo clown for the . . . I lost track-th time. A VT fan decides he is going to chime in. HTHC starts to go after the fan, then asks us, "Are you going to do something about that?" I inform him, "We can't. NFHS and IHSA took issues with fans out of our hands." HTHC: "You're kidding! You really aren't going to do anything! This is ridiculous." Me: "They took it away from officials. It's up to the game administrator to handle fans." HTHC: "So who is that? Who kicks fans out?" Me: "The home team should have an administrator at each game." HTHC: "On a Saturday morning for a JV game? Yeah right. They don't send an admin. So who has to take care of it?" Me: "Personally, I believe that rule change should have required a game administrator who is not on the coaching staff. But, they didn't do that. That means it is you, the head coach." HTHC has a deer in the headlights look . . . followed by a light bulb going off and an evil, giddy grin. "So . . . I can kick out their fans?" Me: "That's your job." HTHC: "So I can just tell all of their fans they have to leave?" Me: "Yep." HTHC: "All of them. I can just go, 'You and you and you, gone!'?" Me: "Uh-huh." HTHC: "Well, then. If that guy says one more word . . . " Me: "Why don't we talk to the VTHC and give him a chance to handle his fans first?" HTHC: "Huh. OK." It helped take the focus off my partner for . . . about 7 minutes. Just waiting for this to blow up . . . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 I would have been sooooo tempted to throw my voice. 8 hours ago, The Man in Blue said: HTHC: "Well, then. If that guy says one more word . . . " “Word!” 😲😬 All this kerfuffle… on a JV game??! Context has been lost on everyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyg08 Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 9 hours ago, The Man in Blue said: NFHS has removed our ability or obligation to deal with fans. Today I had a head coach realize the potential unintended consequences (and power) of that. JV double-header. I had two different partners because they added the second game just a few days ago. My second partner is an older guy who is in his first year. This was his 8th game. I asked what he needed more work on; he said the plate. It was not good, but that's a story for another day. In the 5th inning of a game that was feeling long due to some calls that were . . . well, again, story for another day. In the 5th inning, the HTHC was chewing on my partner pretty good (deserved or undeserved). I came in to play rodeo clown for the . . . I lost track-th time. A VT fan decides he is going to chime in. HTHC starts to go after the fan, then asks us, "Are you going to do something about that?" I inform him, "We can't. NFHS and IHSA took issues with fans out of our hands." HTHC: "You're kidding! You really aren't going to do anything! This is ridiculous." Me: "They took it away from officials. It's up to the game administrator to handle fans." HTHC: "So who is that? Who kicks fans out?" Me: "The home team should have an administrator at each game." HTHC: "On a Saturday morning for a JV game? Yeah right. They don't send an admin. So who has to take care of it?" Me: "Personally, I believe that rule change should have required a game administrator who is not on the coaching staff. But, they didn't do that. That means it is you, the head coach." HTHC has a deer in the headlights look . . . followed by a light bulb going off and an evil, giddy grin. "So . . . I can kick out their fans?" Me: "That's your job." HTHC: "So I can just tell all of their fans they have to leave?" Me: "Yep." HTHC: "All of them. I can just go, 'You and you and you, gone!'?" Me: "Uh-huh." HTHC: "Well, then. If that guy says one more word . . . " Me: "Why don't we talk to the VTHC and give him a chance to handle his fans first?" HTHC: "Huh. OK." It helped take the focus off my partner for . . . about 7 minutes. Just waiting for this to blow up . . . But was it a "highly competitive" JV game? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richvee Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 18 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said: But was it a "highly competitive" JV game? Dad thought so. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blue Posted May 12 Author Report Share Posted May 12 3 hours ago, MadMax said: I would have been sooooo tempted to throw my voice. “Word!” 😲😬 All this kerfuffle… on a JV game??! Context has been lost on everyone. What blew my mind was that these were two of the most laid back coaches I have worked with. I gave them both a head's up that the guy was new. I had lots of discussion with both teams' 1BCs through the game on the lack of training/opportunities in our state . . . and it still blew up. Both of the big blowups were timing plays where we had a runner scoring . . . and my partner was out in front of the plate watching my play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 26 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said: Both of the big blowups were timing plays where we had a runner scoring . . . and my partner was out in front of the plate watching my play. Ah! I know where this comes from… Either… He’s done way too much solo work early in his career, or… He’s been instructed* or impressed (by post-game evaluation, or by colleague) incorrectly, with much too much emphasis placed on “getting out from behind the plate… what are ya? Lazy?” * - in this case, likely classroom / zoom meeting session, looking at diagrams or word-salad slides, instead of actually getting out on a field and doing it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimurray Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 16 minutes ago, MadMax said: Ah! I know where this comes from… Either… He’s done way too much solo work early in his career, or… He’s been instructed* or impressed (by post-game evaluation, or by colleague) incorrectly, with much too much emphasis placed on “getting out from behind the plate… what are ya? Lazy?” * - in this case, likely classroom / zoom meeting session, looking at diagrams or word-salad slides, instead of actually getting out on a field and doing it. Sometimes “stand up, step back” works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatsUmp Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 6 minutes ago, MadMax said: * - in this case, likely classroom / zoom meeting session, looking at diagrams or word-salad slides, instead of actually getting out on a field and doing it. When the camp i wanted to attend was cancelled due to COVID and instead offered virtual sessions, I passed and waited for it to resume in-person instruction simply because I both wanted and needed the field and plate work sessions more than presentations and diagrams. For me, it was far more useful to be shown what do do and be told what I was doing well and what small adjustments might work better for me - stuff that simply cannot be shared and conveyed effectively through a screen. Also, some of the diagrams I've seen have enough lines and arrows to be overwhelming and it's much more practical to have a clinician demonstrate where one should be positioned for a particular play and giving attendees the chance to do it for themselves. 1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said: I had lots of discussion with both teams' 1BCs through the game on the lack of training/opportunities in our state . . . and it still blew up. This is definitely an issue all over. In my state, anyone who registers with the state association to be an umpire for either sport on the diamond is given little more than the rule book, case book - and perhaps a mechanics manual - and left to otherwise fend for themselves. This is definitely not the way to get rookies off to a good start especially when officials registering here for the first time in football or basketball have to pass an open book mechanics test to ensure they've at least read up on the basic principles in those sports. Pre-COVID, my official's association used to offer a floor mechanic demonstration in basketball for new and newer officials. It's a shame something like this can't be offered for those who can't attend a more-encompassing camp for whatever reasons. However, I understand how lack of interest and low numbers of new officials registering for a sport often drives the decision to offer these sessions. That said, I have encouraged a rookie or two I've done baseball games with to attend the same camp I've attended in the past when they showed an interest in improving and learning more. 14 hours ago, The Man in Blue said: NFHS has removed our ability or obligation to deal with fans. Today I had a head coach realize the potential unintended consequences (and power) of that. The flip side is officials are now between a rock and a hard place when there's either no game management or a game manager who doesn't want to address unruly fans. I don't envy any officials finding themselves in that position. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 3 hours ago, StatsUmp said: This is definitely an issue all over. In my state, anyone who registers with the state association to be an umpire for either sport on the diamond is given little more than the rule book, case book - and perhaps a mechanics manual - and left to otherwise fend for themselves. This is definitely not the way to get rookies off to a good start especially when officials registering here for the first time in football or basketball have to pass an open book mechanics test to ensure they've at least read up on the basic principles in those sports. This is Crucial Question A-Number-1: Does your/that state association draw or take registration fees or dues, especially off new registrants? If “Yes”, I don’t care how much or how little (token) it is, your/that association is a part of the problem. How? How can an organization pull $X off a new recruit, provide nominal-to-no training, provide no gear, provide no uniform, provide no structured support… and deny that that constitutes robbery (or extortion)?? “You gotta pay to play (officiate)”? Absurd. The entire system is broken. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blue Posted May 13 Author Report Share Posted May 13 Well … this was his 8th game. One he ended up solo (what the ever-loving funk?) and one he started with a partner who bailed to go do another game. Two he worked with a partner who he never should have been paired with. So … not much for feedback. He said he tried doing basketball about 8 years ago, but couldn’t keep up with it. I made a comment about the speed of HS basketball and he said, “Oh, no. This was a 4th-5th grade house league.” He had watched a few games, paid the $70, bought decent gear (sorry, @MadMax, he went to the Golden Arches), went to a clinic (or, as I call our local clinics, a beer and bull$#!+ session), and then watched videos online. I don’t know what more you guys want! 🙄 I tried to provide him as much positive feedback as I could, sandwiching in opportunities. He wasn’t all bad, but those coaches were destroying him and it was in his head. He will never be a high level varsity guy, but with some work he could be a competent JV and maybe low-level youth umpire. We were on the backlot (practice field) of the local community college. They had a game on their field and I was hoping we would get done before them. I was going to ask him to go sit and watch part of it to talk about what the umpires were doing and why. Observing is one thing, but if you don’t know why we do what we do … 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudisfun Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 On 5/12/2024 at 5:25 PM, The Man in Blue said: Well … this was his 8th game. One he ended up solo (what the ever-loving funk?) Welcome to JV and below HS baseball in So Cal... And we wonder why we lose new guys at a high rate between years 1-3. No on field training/feedback from experienced partners so they reenforce bad habits or make new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richvee Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 2 minutes ago, Mudisfun said: Welcome to JV and below HS baseball in So Cal... And we wonder why we lose new guys at a high rate between years 1-3. No on field training/feedback from experienced partners so they reenforce bad habits or make new ones. Bottom line is you have to want to advance and you have to help yourself advance. When I started, 15 years ago, sub varsity was 2 man. That rarely translated into onfield feed back or stopping bad habits. I ws usually paired with a "Sub varsity lifer" * They weren't there to teach me anything. Often I found myself knowing more rules and mechanics than they did. Being new and working solo certainly has it's drawbacks. But it does get you a lot of reps behind the plate. Back to my original point. Starting out I had partners, but to advance I had to learn on my own....Read books, learn mechanics, attend clinics, go watch two man games, introduce yourself to those umpires, learn from them. Do summer ball where you may actually work 2 man with people who know how. We can recruit numbers. We are only going to hold on to the ones who really want to get better and learn. * Sub Varsity lifer: Been umpiring for over 15 years, never been to a clinic, still moves to 1BLX on plays at the plate. Owns one pair of faded grey/pink pants, one short sleeve navy blue shirt, and layers up with sweatshirts under it on cold days. The "uniform" gets rolled up in the back of the car, sees a washing machine once every off season. Commonly heard uttering phrases like "I've been doing this 15 years, I don't understand why I don't get a varsity schedule". I could go on.. you get the point. 2 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLWizzRanger Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 22 minutes ago, Richvee said: en to a clinic, still moves to 1BLX on plays at the plate. Owns one pair of faded grey/pink pants, one short sleeve navy blue shirt, and layers up with sweatshirts under it on cold days. The "uniform" gets rolled up in the back of the car, sees a washing machine once every off season. Commonly heard uttering phrases like "I've been doing this 15 years, I don't understand why I don't get a varsity schedule". I could go on.. you get the point. Heck, I can tell you were only two or three details away from being able to specifically tell who you were thinking of when you wrote this. Don't hold back! Its not like they are on here trying to get better... lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayhawk Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 On 5/12/2024 at 12:09 PM, StatsUmp said: This is definitely an issue all over. In my state, anyone who registers with the state association to be an umpire for either sport on the diamond is given little more than the rule book, case book - and perhaps a mechanics manual - and left to otherwise fend for themselves. Seems like a great opportunity for the more advanced umpires to get together and start a free on-field clinic on their own. Seek out a coach from a private school (less red tape to deal with) so see if you can use their JV field on a Saturday morning before the season starts. Get 8-10 guys who will instruct and build a really kick-ass clinic. I promise it will be well worth the effort, not only for the brotherhood, but for the players who deserve good officiating. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richvee Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 9 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said: Heck, I can tell you were only two or three details away from being able to specifically tell who you were thinking of when you wrote this. Unfortunately, as @Kevin_K can attest to, this fits the profile of at least a dozen I can think of off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 In no way am I arguing against you, Steve, as yours is a commendable idea… However… 5 hours ago, grayhawk said: Seems like a great opportunity for the more advanced umpires to get together and start a free on-field clinic on their own. This sounds exactly like an… association! What an association should be doing, by default!! Instead, we get this: On 5/12/2024 at 6:19 PM, MadMax said: This is Crucial Question A-Number-1: Does your/that state association draw or take registration fees or dues, especially off new registrants? If “Yes”, I don’t care how much or how little (token) it is, your/that association is a part of the problem. How? How can an organization pull $X off a new recruit, provide nominal-to-no training, provide no gear, provide no uniform, provide no structured support… and deny that that constitutes robbery (or extortion)?? “You gotta pay to play (officiate)”? Absurd. The entire system is broken. As I expressed, if an association takes an even token amount of money off its members, attributes it to “(paying your) dues”, and doesn’t transparently disclose where the money goes (training, support resources, hats/uniform pieces, etc), then the association is failing you (the members). Period! Why should any of you “advanced umpires” be hosting or providing training un-subsidized or unsupported by your association?! And heaven forbid if you’re part of, or even adjacent to a college conference/association… if you provide any training or clinic work – for free – you’re going to experience some sort of reprimand, ostracism, or backlash for jeopardizing some guys’ “very lucrative revenue stream”. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again… the system by which we “recruit”, develop and retain umpires is b-r-o-k-e-n. Know how I can tell? Major League Baseball completely reconfigured the recruitment-evaluation-education process, and took the Schools (of which HWUS was the last) out of the compulsory process. The Schools (and their $$$ tuition!) are (still) an avenue, but no longer the avenue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blue Posted May 17 Author Report Share Posted May 17 Building off that, I know I am part of the problem. I would LOVE to recruit and train new umpires, put on educational sessions, and generally further the craft … To do that means, IMO, giving up umpiring. You cannot work a full (or semi-full) schedule of games and be valuable to others. Here is the rub: while I do not umpire for the money, I also do not umpire for the money. My time is not free or valueless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayhawk Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 13 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said: Building off that, I know I am part of the problem. I would LOVE to recruit and train new umpires, put on educational sessions, and generally further the craft … To do that means, IMO, giving up umpiring. You cannot work a full (or semi-full) schedule of games and be valuable to others. Here is the rub: while I do not umpire for the money, I also do not umpire for the money. My time is not free or valueless. You absolutely can work a full schedule and be valuable to others. When I was in the HS association, we did it all the time. The last year I was IC, we had 6 classroom sessions, 4 on-field clinics, and a mentor program. The clinics were all held before the season (3-man, 2-man, 1-man, and "cages only"). My personal favorite was the cages only clinic, which was the weekend right before opening day, so the newest members got plate instruction just prior to their first game. You could start with this kind of clinic and grow from there. Imagine how much a new umpire could improve their plate mechanics in just one 3 hour session. These things don't just happen our of the ether. SOMEONE has to be the driver. Why not you? If you want to be paid for your time, how about charging a nominal fee ($25?) for those in attendance? It might make what you're offering to be of more value for the attendees since they have a little skin in the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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