MadMax Posted April 8 Report Posted April 8 Watch this latest snip from Force3, featuring the Defender v2 (v3?) HSM : Watch it again, carefully, and note the tester's head... It doesn't move (much, if at all). The entire forward (main) shell of the HSM compresses, deforms, and rebounds around his head. That's all the kinetic energy at work, dissipating into the mass and mechanisms of the Defender. Looking at this, where or how is the concussion occurring? Well, like I pointed out, what we don't see is the wearer snapping his head back, recoiling at the shock of being hit. This is what causes the concussion!!! It's not the kinetic force of the impact that's doing it directly, but instead, it's our own REACTION to it that causes our head to snap back, and our brain to slosh to-&-fro within our skull! Now, granted, this wearer has been alerted and knows it's coming. We don't exactly know which pitch is going to get us, but be assured, it takes awareness and preparation – on each pitch – so as to best mitigate an impact. One advantage that I have is an extensive background as a catcher and hockey goalie, where I would be impacted by baseballs or pucks to my mask. If I didn't outright know they were coming, I can say I almost expected them. Similar can be said about soccer, in that instead of letting the ball hit your head, you prepare and ready yourself to propel your head to the ball. No one mask frame is better or worse than another at "preventing concussions", provided it is intact. So, the MLBU that stood up in front of our class and claimed that titanium masks are/were "dangerous" was full of $h!t. Of course, rightly so, a great deal of the protection is in the pads (and to this end, Wilson and other manufacturers have been woefully deficient). All-Star and Force3 have taken this one step further, by employing geometric and mechanical features, respectively, to significantly aid in reducing the amount of kinetic energy that affects the wearer. 3 1 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted April 9 Report Posted April 9 Whether it is your mask, your CP, your throat protector, or whatever piece of gear we are talking about . . . I have long said the two most important things you can learn are to trust your gear to take the hit, and how to stand still and take a bump. Injuries are far more likely to happen when we twist, turn, and squirm so that we are exposing ourselves to harm. 1 Quote
SeeingEyeDog Posted April 9 Report Posted April 9 I have seen videos of umpires demonstrating various neck and trapezius weight training exercises. Typically they incorporate some sort of harness around the back of your head, you're bent at the waist head down and you have a 3-5 pound weight dangling downwards in front of your face connected to the harness and you're lifting your head up and back under control so the weight simply rises and falls. Is there any truth to the claims that these and other exercises that tone these muscles would help provide more shock absorption/injury prevention? ~Dawg Quote
ousafe Posted April 9 Report Posted April 9 @MadMax so are you saying I can concuss myself by flinching hard enough? Your assertion is interesting but I'd love to see the supporting data. Do you have a cite? Quote
beerguy55 Posted April 9 Report Posted April 9 10 hours ago, ousafe said: @MadMax so are you saying I can concuss myself by flinching hard enough? Your assertion is interesting but I'd love to see the supporting data. Do you have a cite? You ever given yourself whiplash when you turned your head suddenly, like when startled? Same principle - it's your reaction that caused the injury, not the event that caused you to react. There is anecdotal evidence, and maybe even some empirical analysis, related to drunk drivers that explains why so many drunks walk away from car accidents unscathed (whether driving or not), whereas sober drivers, if nothing else, can suffer muscle aches and pains, or concussions, for weeks/months - the drunks are totally unaware/relaxed at time of impact, and the seatbelt, airbags and car crumple zones do their job in protecting the driver/passenger. I learned this (the hard way) as a young kid with an old school catcher's mask...turned my head and took one in the ear, where if I'd just taken it in the mask I'd have been fine. Nowadays, with the hockey helmets, kids aren't learning that lesson, but they still need to be taught to just keep your head forward. 1 1 Quote
umpstu Posted April 9 Report Posted April 9 Well, I received a concussion from a fouled off fast ball last week. Didn't flinch. Didn't have time to. Gave up my games for the rest of the week just so I wouldn't be jostling my tiny brain around while running the bases. Sore jaws, clogging and popping of ears, headache and whiplash. Sick the first couple of days. Man that really sucked. 3 Quote
MadMax Posted April 9 Author Report Posted April 9 11 hours ago, ousafe said: Your assertion is interesting but I'd love to see the supporting data. It’s not the presence of data that implies this; to the contrary, it’s the absence of data. They can’t test for/against concussions (as a defined term). Why? Because each and every individual person will – not might, not probably, not likely, will – react differently impact to impact. Even if the impacts themselves are exactly the same mass, velocity, and force (yes, yes, I know there’s an equation there), the differences will still be there, and so overwhelmingly varied so as to render the data meaningless. And what this world doesn’t need is another meaningless data set. We get enough of those watching the news. So what are the equipment manufacturers to do? Well, if you caught the All-Star Cobalt Launch, co-opted by UmpAttire, Stan Jurga demonstrated exactly what they are limited to. Scientists and Doctors have published a benchmark, or a boundary, measured in G-force (IIRC, it’s in Newtons) past which there is risk of bone fracture and catastrophic tissue trauma. That’s what they’re able to measure, and able to test against. If the mannequin/mount (Crash Test Dummy) was to move, that would give a false-positive, would it not? However, it’s precisely that movement, that REACTION that induces a concussion. So, that same Defender-II HSM we see above 👆🏼, if worn by a complete novice (or “civilian”, as it were), under the same test, but that impact is a complete surprise… we’re much more likely to see a concussion as a result. Would that wearer have a TBI, broken skull / facial bones, and/or tissue damage? Certainly not. But if the wearer snaps his head back, the chances of a concussion are dramatically increased. In no way am I saying that @umpstu did not experience a concussion. What I do have to say – and I hope he understands my perspective and message here – is that the mask itself, provided it is/was functionally intact – is only marginally relevant. Sure, a geometric mask (like a FM4000 Mag) or a mechanical mask (like a Defender) is going to reduce the amount of energy assailing your head. But, ultimately, it is your own reaction to that energy – whatever’s there – that induces a concussion. Quote
umpstu Posted April 9 Report Posted April 9 46 minutes ago, MadMax said: It’s not the presence of data that implies this; to the contrary, it’s the absence of data. They can’t test for/against concussions (as a defined term). Why? Because each and every individual person will – not might, not probably, not likely, will – react differently impact to impact. Even if the impacts themselves are exactly the same mass, velocity, and force (yes, yes, I know there’s an equation there), the differences will still be there, and so overwhelmingly varied so as to render the data meaningless. And what this world doesn’t need is another meaningless data set. We get enough of those watching the news. So what are the equipment manufacturers to do? Well, if you caught the All-Star Cobalt Launch, co-opted by UmpAttire, Stan Jurga demonstrated exactly what they are limited to. Scientists and Doctors have published a benchmark, or a boundary, measured in G-force (IIRC, it’s in Newtons) past which there is risk of bone fracture and catastrophic tissue trauma. That’s what they’re able to measure, and able to test against. If the mannequin/mount (Crash Test Dummy) was to move, that would give a false-positive, would it not? However, it’s precisely that movement, that REACTION that induces a concussion. So, that same Defender-II HSM we see above 👆🏼, if worn by a complete novice (or “civilian”, as it were), under the same test, but that impact is a complete surprise… we’re much more likely to see a concussion as a result. Would that wearer have a TBI, broken skull / facial bones, and/or tissue damage? Certainly not. But if the wearer snaps his head back, the chances of a concussion are dramatically increased. In no way am I saying that @umpstu did not experience a concussion. What I do have to say – and I hope he understands my perspective and message here – is that the mask itself, provided it is/was functionally intact – is only marginally relevant. Sure, a geometric mask (like a FM4000 Mag) or a mechanical mask (like a Defender) is going to reduce the amount of energy assailing your head. But, ultimately, it is your own reaction to that energy – whatever’s there – that induces a concussion. Was no time to react and was wearing an FM4000 Mag. Was a perfect storm situation. Guy was consistently in the mid 80's and just one of those things. Defecation occurs sometimes. 1 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted April 9 Report Posted April 9 The heart of what @MadMax is saying is that it is not technically the force of an impact that causes a concussion, it is your brain rattling around in your head. In essence, it is rapid acceleration and deceleration. Theoretically, the more still you are able to hold, the less likely you are to be concussed. It is a movement-induced injury, not an impact injury. Yes, impact can certainly induce movement. Safety gear is designed to absorb, reduce, redirect, and dissipate force. In the case of protective headwear (helmets, masks, added cushioning) the idea is to do that to reduce the amount of movement caused by the transferred force. 1 2 Quote
SeeingEyeDog Posted April 10 Report Posted April 10 21 hours ago, umpstu said: Was no time to react and was wearing an FM4000 Mag. Was a perfect storm situation. Guy was consistently in the mid 80's and just one of those things. Defecation occurs sometimes. @umpstu, I'm curious...what kind of harness is on your mask and how tight do you wear your mask? (Collecting data here, this is a judge-free zone...) I wish you a speedy recovery and look forward to hearing you tell us you were able to get back out there, brother. ~Dawg 1 Quote
umpstu Posted April 10 Report Posted April 10 1 hour ago, SeeingEyeDog said: @umpstu, I'm curious...what kind of harness is on your mask and how tight do you wear your mask? (Collecting data here, this is a judge-free zone...) I wish you a speedy recovery and look forward to hearing you tell us you were able to get back out there, brother. ~Dawg UmpLife harness. Just tight enough to not move, but not so tight that it won't twist or come off when hit by a baseball. Again, it was just a perfect storm type of situation. 1 1 Quote
umpstu Posted April 10 Report Posted April 10 21 hours ago, The Man in Blue said: The heart of what @MadMax is saying is that it is not technically the force of an impact that causes a concussion, it is your brain rattling around in your head. In essence, it is rapid acceleration and deceleration. Theoretically, the more still you are able to hold, the less likely you are to be concussed. It is a movement-induced injury, not an impact injury. Yes, impact can certainly induce movement. Safety gear is designed to absorb, reduce, redirect, and dissipate force. In the case of protective headwear (helmets, masks, added cushioning) the idea is to do that to reduce the amount of movement caused by the transferred force. The brain jarring around inside your head, even though it is a minute sized brain I have, is the reason I turned back my games for the rest of the week. Did not want to risk further damage by running around the field. 5 games. 3 1 Quote
MadMax Posted April 11 Author Report Posted April 11 22 hours ago, umpstu said: The brain jarring around inside your head, even though it is a minute sized brain I have, is the reason I turned back my games for the rest of the week. Actually, you may just have an oversized brain… as in, the distance between your brain 🧠 tissue and the inner surface of your skull 💀 might be less than typical human. Fractions of inches matter. We’re glad you identified the risk, and opted off of plate. No one – assigner, coordinator, supervisor, evaluator, or partner – should ever coerce you into doing plate if and when you’re experiencing after-effects. 2 Quote
wolfe_man Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 43 minutes ago, MadMax said: Actually, you may just have an oversized brain… as in, the distance between your brain 🧠 tissue and the inner surface of your skull 💀 might be less than typical human. Fractions of inches matter. We’re glad you identified the risk, and opted off of plate. No one – assigner, coordinator, supervisor, evaluator, or partner – should ever coerce you into doing plate if and when you’re experiencing after-effects. You make a good point here Champ! It's important to self-diagnose something is off, get checked out if you're having lingering or excessive (your call again here) issues like we're trained to identify in others - and take time off and rest! Never rush back as it only increases the likelihood of the next impact causing more severe and/or longer-lasting damage. I've had a mild concussion (AS MAG on foul back in a JV game) and didn't realize it until I was having the worst plate game of my life the following day. I honestly was thinking of retiring after that one, I did that poorly. I was apologizing to the kids, F2's, coaches - anyone that would listen... when it hit me and I had that proverbial light-bulg moment - I must have a concussion! It felt like I was looking out of my eyes sideways, I just couldn't see a pitch well at all. I had no headache or other typical signs, other than my vision was"off". I called my assignor and took the rest of the week off and went back at it the next week with no further issues. It's very important to err on the side of caution and be responsible for your own health here. Don't be ego-driven and try to tough it out. It's too your advantage to rest up and recover and don't come back until you're ready. 4 1 Quote
umpstu Posted April 12 Report Posted April 12 12 hours ago, wolfe_man said: You make a good point here Champ! It's important to self-diagnose something is off, get checked out if you're having lingering or excessive (your call again here) issues like we're trained to identify in others - and take time off and rest! Never rush back as it only increases the likelihood of the next impact causing more severe and/or longer-lasting damage. I've had a mild concussion (AS MAG on foul back in a JV game) and didn't realize it until I was having the worst plate game of my life the following day. I honestly was thinking of retiring after that one, I did that poorly. I was apologizing to the kids, F2's, coaches - anyone that would listen... when it hit me and I had that proverbial light-bulg moment - I must have a concussion! It felt like I was looking out of my eyes sideways, I just couldn't see a pitch well at all. I had no headache or other typical signs, other than my vision was"off". I called my assignor and took the rest of the week off and went back at it the next week with no further issues. It's very important to err on the side of caution and be responsible for your own health here. Don't be ego-driven and try to tough it out. It's too your advantage to rest up and recover and don't come back until you're ready. I knew I had one and it really hit home on the drive home after I came off the field. Plus I had a conversation with a fellow umpire. At least that's what I was told. 2 Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.