runner does not touch home

[WALRUSKKKCH]

In a recent youth league ball game a batter hits a home run with less than two out with a runner on third. The runner on third does not touch home plate during the team celebration. The defensive team appealed his missing home plate by touching home plate with the new ball and the umpire ruled the runner out but said the home run counted because there was still less than 3 outs. Was this the correct call?

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, WALRUSKKKCH said:

In a recent youth league ball game a batter hits a home run with less than two out with a runner on third. The runner on third does not touch home plate during the team celebration. The defensive team appealed his missing home plate by touching home plate with the new ball and the umpire ruled the runner out but said the home run counted because there was still less than 3 outs. Was this the correct call?

yes

[maven]

It depends on whether the "new" ball was also live (and also the code). Provided that the appeal was proper, the call was correct. 

It's a time play, so any runs scored before the third out was called (the appeal of R3) will count.

[Tborze]

I don’t detect any “human tone” here. 
@The Man in Blue ?

[Vegas_Ump]

Had a similar play in a District LLWS playoff.  2 out, R2 and R3.  B4 hits a home run.  R3 misses home plate in the mosh pit of players excited that they are now ahead.

Manager wants to change pitchers.  In so doing, F2 tells him of the running violation.  So they strategize their plan for an upcoming appeal.

Teams get set, the pitcher throws the ball home and the catcher makes an appeal.  I announce that I must put the ball into play before the appeal can be made.  For reasons known only to the studio audience, the manger tells the pitcher to toe the rubber first.  He does so.  I say Play!

The pitcher then delivers the ball from the rubber.  Mike says, "Ball!"

Catcher makes his appeal, and.........that's when all the trouble started.

Mike

Las Vegas

[Velho]

more and more I like the sound of verbal dead ball appeals. I've never done HS so don't know if it's worse than it seems but getting 10yr olds to do the hokey-pokey on this is excessive.

[The Man in Blue]

1 hour ago, Tborze said:

I don’t detect any “human tone” here. 
@The Man in Blue ?

 

Human.  Too clunky for AI.

Tangent: My department chair said I "need to have proof" when calling students out for using AI, so I have two "checkers" that I use (among other, better methods).  I threw the OP here in just to see.  Both said 100% human.

My instincts haven't been wrong yet!

Though, I've had some things I needed to investigate further.  For example, I have gone from encouraging students to use Grammarly to actively discouraging it.  With their new AI push, it is no longer just spell-checking and grammar-checking, it is rewriting students' work.

[maven]

34 minutes ago, Velho said:

more and more I like the sound of verbal dead ball appeals. I've never done HS so don't know if it's worse than it seems but getting 10yr olds to do the hokey-pokey on this is excessive.

Oh they're great all right. So great, that some of us will call time before the hokey-pokey gets going and ask Coach what he wants to do. When he says "Appeal," we make sure it's the right runner at the right base, ("which runner? what did he do?"), and then rule on it. 

Can be a game saver. Always a time saver.

[beerguy55]

25 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

Human.  Too clunky for AI.

Tangent: My department chair said I "need to have proof" when calling students out for using AI, so I have two "checkers" that I use (among other, better methods).  I threw the OP here in just to see.  Both said 100% human.

My instincts haven't been wrong yet!

Though, I've had some things I needed to investigate further.  For example, I have gone from encouraging students to use Grammarly to actively discouraging it.  With their new AI push, it is no longer just spell-checking and grammar-checking, it is rewriting students' work.

My daughter is a university TA for an Ethics course...she had one paper she was grading that was detected as plagiarized...in an Ethics class.   And now she's dealing with AI.  Fun stuff.

[Mussgrass]

45 minutes ago, Velho said:

more and more I like the sound of verbal dead ball appeals. I've never done HS so don't know if it's worse than it seems but getting 10yr olds to do the hokey-pokey on this is excessive.

Even though the league I work is "LL" I tell the managers before the game that I will honor dead ball appeals. I am more interested in teaching the kids (and adults) to pay attention more than to go through the hokey pokey, as you put it.

[The Man in Blue]

24 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

My daughter is a university TA for an Ethics course...she had one paper she was grading that was detected as plagiarized...in an Ethics class.   And now she's dealing with AI.  Fun stuff.

TANGENT CONVERSATION:

I was out for a conference one day, so I left an article about a neat book project (alternative to a book report).  The students just had to read the article and tell me: 1) Could you do this with your book (yes/no)? 2) What challenges do you see in completing this?

A student turned in 6 paragraphs on the career of Shonda Rhimes. 

He also recently turned in a 3 page paper that was written in just 188 keystrokes (180 of them were us setting up the formatting in class).

Yet, I can' get him removed from an honors class because he plays the sports balls and "wants to go to college."  (I had a heated conversation with his AP.  Apparently they think failing an honors class looks good?  I sent a somewhat nasty e-mail to him, his AP, and his coach asking if he thinks cheating is OK on the sports ball field/court/arena and if he is good at his sports ball because he doesn't practice or lets other people make his plays for him.  Crickets.)

ON THE FLIP SIDE: My wife experienced the reason detection needs to be started by a human being.  In nursing school, she was accused of plagiarism because the instructors upload all of their papers into a database and run them through a program.  Her paper was flagged for plagiarism because a large part of it was already in the database.  The author of that other paper?  HER.  She was accused of plagiarizing herself.  🙄

 

Maybe this does tie into the instant replay conversation in another thread . . . ? 

[Lou B]

7 hours ago, maven said:

It depends on whether the "new" ball was also live (and also the code). Provided that the appeal was proper, the call was correct. 

It's a time play, so any runs scored before the third out was called (the appeal of R3) will count.

It said less than 2 outs so the appeal of R3 is not the third out.

One question: Did R3 stop short of the plate to celebrate with his teammates?  If so, you have an out for the batter passing the runner when he touches home!

[kylehutson]

I'll just drop this here... 

[MadMax]

On 4/3/2024 at 9:34 AM, Mussgrass said:

Even though the league I work is "LL" I tell the managers before the game that I will honor dead ball appeals.

👆🏼 👆🏼 👆🏼 this!!! This is the a platform we should operate from for all amateur ball beneath collegiate. If you think about it, LL already does dead ball appeals. The precedent has already been established (thanks ESPN coverage!) in LLWS events, with coaches appealing just about everything. Any umpire who is so standoffish and pedantic so as to not allow dead ball appeals – or, at the very least, guidance through a live ball appeal – in amateur baseball may as well hang it up. 

And I’m not talking about coaching them through it, like some kind of How-To tutorial. Simply saying, “The ball is still Live, guys, you don’t have to go to the mound” is enough. 

On 4/3/2024 at 9:34 AM, Mussgrass said:

I am more interested in teaching the kids (and adults) to pay attention more than to go through the hokey pokey, as you put it.

Muss, I’d do a game with you anywhere in this great nation (… okay, Canada, too) if you’ve got an attitude like this. I’d rather work with you than a stodgy, inflexible “rules” guy. 

On 4/3/2024 at 11:57 AM, Lou B said:

Did R3 stop short of the plate to celebrate with his teammates?  If so, you have an out for the batter passing the runner when he touches home!

Ya can’t exactly say that. As long as he breaks the plane of the plate, he’s considered a Scored Runner, and his base running requirements – as far as passing goes – are complete. If he’s among the throng of teammates celebrating at / around / over the plate, I’m inclined to considered him scored, subject-to-appeal for the missed touch of HP notwithstanding. 

So, no passing. That space on the Umpire Bingo Card remains unpunched.