Still Amazes Me

[Lou B]

Spending today watching my grand-daughter playing in a 12U Travel Softball Tournament on GameChanger.  Seems crazy to me how many games they play in a day.

They won their games at 8:00, 10:00 and 12:00.  Their 2:00 is almost about to start.  Then they play at 4:00 and 6:00 and if they make the Finals, 8:00 !!!

It still amazes me how many games (6-7) these tournaments have them play in One Day.

I guess it all comes down to "show me the money"!

[SeeingEyeDog]

     Agreed, @Lou B...not sure if you're the paying customer here since it's your grand-daughter but, for ANY travel sports or activity, it's always advisable for the team families to sit down with the head coach or the director of their travel team and discuss what kind of season the team wants to have. There are tournaments of all shapes and sizes that play all sorts of schedules. Some teams play very few tournaments and stick close to home to minimize their travel time and expenses. Some teams are into taking advantage of their tournament locations to then also spend time doing other things while at that tournament. And of course, some teams are criss-crossing the country every weekend with no real concern about the time or the money.

     It's hard to get 15-20 families to agree on anything these days but, again it's important to speak and be heard so that everyone knows what the team is committing to for that season. It may be that if the consensus of the team's families is not in line with what one family is able to commit to in terms of time and money that then that family is now making an informed decision to either increase their commitment OR choosing to play with another team or program that has a schedule that is more in line with their level of commitment. There are no right or wrong answers of course, there is simply what works best for each individual family. This is a sport, it is supposed to be fun not suffered or endured.

~Dawg

[Lou B]

Played on the same team last year when she was 11.  Pretty much the same thing.  One day Tournaments every 2-3 weeks, 5-7 games.  All the 11s came back this year.

The organization has teams at every age level and just about all the girls make their school teams.  Probably the best organization in the area.

Again, just surprised of so many games in one day. 

They've Won every game so far and they're up 7-0 in the 6:00 game so they pretty much guaranteed to play in the 8:00 title game.

[Richvee]

What’s just as amazing is how umpires work all 7 games. Or 5 -6 90’ baseball games a day. 

[MadMax]

On 3/30/2024 at 3:38 PM, Richvee said:

Or 5 -6 90’ baseball games a day.

Been there, done that... and fairly recently, too. 

We've got very ... challenging elements at play to contemplate and consider. 

• We've got more games than ever to cover. And this isn't necessarily more games within a specific tournament event; instead, it's concurrent events, often competing economically / exposure / prestige / dividend. 
• We have less umpires, and those that we have, the majority are either aging out, or are still developing their skillset. The older ones are prone to continuing or relying on bad habits, while the newer ones are prone to learning or assimilating bad habits, all in the name of "doing X number of games per day". 
• Because of the lower number of umpires, and the higher number of games, spread out as they are, there is little chance to do "umpire platoons", or shifts, or "line changes". Instead, it's 2 umpires assigned to 1 field to work 6 time slots, with a "figure it out, good luck, we trust you can handle it". Little-to-no supervision, no evaluation, no development, little-to-no support, and no relief or little hope of replacement. 

[Richvee]

2 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Been there, done that... and fairly recently, too. 

We've got very ... challenging elements at play to contemplate and consider. 

• We've got more games than ever to cover. And this isn't necessarily more games within a specific tournament event; instead, it's concurrent events, often competing economically / exposure / prestige / dividend. 
• We have less umpires, and those that we have, the majority are either aging out, or are still developing their skillset. The older ones are prone to continuing or relying on bad habits, while the newer ones are prone to learning or assimilating bad habits, all in the name of "doing X number of games per day". 
• Because of the lower number of umpires, and the higher number of games, spread out as they are, there is little chance to do "umpire platoons", or shifts, or "line changes". Instead, it's 2 umpires assigned to 1 field to work 6 time slots, with a "figure it out, good luck, we trust you can handle it". Little-to-no supervision, no evaluation, no development, little-to-no support, and no relief or little hope of replacement. 

 I think there is also a little to do with assigners. It's easier to put the old guard "I can do all 6 games at this venue" guys, or the new, younger "I'm in good shape I can do 6 games" guys, who like you said, aren't getting better because I don't care who you are, you can't do things right (Hustle, concentration, etc) for 12 hours straight. But for the assigner, it's one push of a button and he's got the whole day on one field covered. I seriously think better umpires who aren't willing to do 5-6 games on one field in a day are missing out because its harder to assign multiple guys throughout day. 

[Velho]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

I seriously think better umpires who aren't willing to do 5-6 games on one field in a day are missing out because its harder to assign multiple guys throughout day. 

Not to mention put up with the typical behavior of participants at these tournaments

[wolfe_man]

7 hours ago, Richvee said:

 I think there is also a little to do with assigners. It's easier to put the old guard "I can do all 6 games at this venue" guys, or the new, younger "I'm in good shape I can do 6 games" guys, who like you said, aren't getting better because I don't care who you are, you can't do things right (Hustle, concentration, etc) for 12 hours straight. But for the assigner, it's one push of a button and he's got the whole day on one field covered. I seriously think better umpires who aren't willing to do 5-6 games on one field in a day are missing out because its harder to assign multiple guys throughout day. 

I know this is true, because I won't work 4-6 games per day and I always offer to help with the better tourneys in my area. I'm willing to take days off work and works Thurs - Sat (Sun is church and I won't work, another reason I don't get used, but I digress)... but do I get games assigned to me? Nope. Assignor, who calls me one of his best guys per what a peer told me, called me with my games for the first big tourney coming up in Summer around my area... guess how many games? Zero... but he told me not to worry, he'll get me some games.  Last year, I filled in when a guy went down and worked his last game and got paid 1.5 normal rate due to emergency fill in - but that was it for a four day tournament.

I'm not mad at him either, I understand.  It's so much easier to put Tom & DIck on Field 1 for the day than to try to fit me and some other person in there for two games and then get another set of guys to finish the rest of the day.  I blame fellow umpires as much as the assignors and the tourneys.  Quit accepting that many games in one day.  I don't care who you are, I've never seen an umpire yet, working 15-18U games with 2 hr 15 min no new inning time limits, who is as fresh and sharp in game 4/5/6 as he was in games 1/2/3.  We say it's not about the money, then why else are we working 4-6 games a day when we know we can't be sharp?  Are we honestly saying that we chose to work 10-12+ hours in the blazing sun for fun times then?  If we'd stop letting them force us to take 4+ games per day, then we all could get a small piece of the pie and still enjoy the day doing what we love responsibly and more efficiently.  In my area, it's not so much we can't find enough guys but the younger guys who are willing to work all the games on one field for every day are the ones that get used... and many times they are not the best umpires.  But until assignors change this "butts in seats" method of assigning, then it will continue for the foreseeable future.

PS - I'm not mad at some of you guys that do take and can work 4-6 games a day out of necessity.  I'm speaking more about those that do it because the assignor doesn't want to work hard and try to get more umpires involved.

[SeeingEyeDog]

Wow, this is another great discussion...

Yup, I agree covering a field for a day with one push of a button is a big factor to this. Ideally, the assigners should be looking at the complete list of available umpires for that day, date and site as well as factoring in drive distance and whatever your association's minimum umpire ratings are required to cover a game. Then assign two to this guy, two to that guy and so forth...if you still have open games, then of course bump guys up to 3+ games in order that games are indeed covered. But, again when you are assigning thousands of games a year those one-button pushes to cover large chunks of the schedule are so helpful. Load management across the ENTIRE association is beneficial to all over the course of the entire year, especially when the 90+ degree days hit.

It would also be nice to see a format where in order to get high school games, an umpire has to work a minimum number of non-high school games. Obviously there will be exceptions...guys who are retired with beach front property who work the high school season and then re-locate to the beach until the next high school season and countless other circumstances. It's the guys who only work the high school season and then block for the remainder of the year because they don't want to work any other baseball that could help out here.

~Dawg

[834k3r]

I'm in that group @MadMax described--young enough (for now) to do it, but still developing my skillset. I have learned already, though, that mentally it's too difficult to umpire more than three games even with a two-man crew. I won't work solo (any longer). If a tournament director wants me on one of his fields, I owe him the best I can offer. That means limiting myself to no solo games and only 3 per day.

We all have different limits (we have a former D-II umpire in our association that has worked 6 games in a row) but I know mine and won't deviate. All respect to those umpires that work so many games in a row.

[MadMax]

On 3/30/2024 at 10:56 AM, Lou B said:

Seems crazy to me how many games they play in a day.

While the paradigm shift has been gradual, these last ten years has been more abrupt, with the panic-demic causing or being the biggest lurch. 

Gone are the weeknight local / regional leagues (aside from Little League). In northern climates, the majority of potential athletes are multi-sport, so the schools serve the role of arena for those interests. And there are a lot of activities and interests. I get it – parents want their kids to be involved with, or at least try, as many diverse things as possible. So where does baseball fit in? 

Weekends.

And if parents are going to pay beaucoup $$$ of entry fees, and gate fees, and block off an entire weekend, then golly-gosh-dammit, Joey better be playing 3-5 games… at least.  

17 hours ago, Richvee said:

I think there is also a little to do with assigners

It has a lot to do with assigners. With how many Tournament Entities (TEs) there now are, most of the competing is done “on paper” instead of on the field(s), where it should be. Parents have been seduced into the belief that frequency matters. They’d rather have Joey on a team of 9-12 kids, wherein he participates in every game, instead of on a “stacked” team, that may/may-not play as frequently, but play high-end (and thus, high-quality*) games. 

So how is “quality” measured? Sure, competition levels, but also – here’s where we (umpires) come in – knowledge, skill, and (perceived) fairness of umpires. It’s a really tumultuous dichotomy – we’re supposed to be all equal in knowledge and fairness, right? But yet, we (umpires) know that some guys are not cut out for 18U Perfect Game (as best example) College-Recruiter ball; by the same token, some guys are well above 10U “bouncing Betties (pitches) & snowball fights” games, and guys have to progress off of that to hone their skills. However, we (umpires) may value quality, but quality takes second (or third) priority to an assigner. An assigner’s A-Number-1 metric or standard is “Game Filled”, followed closely by or directly attached to “Showed Up On Time”. Only after that are such metrics or variables as “quality” or “game management” or “capability” (whether that be physical or level-of-game). 

TDs and assigners don’t truly cooperate on this; instead, they (implicitly) negotiate… and we (umpires) are the commodities and the currency! 

3 hours ago, 834k3r said:

We all have different limits (we have a former D-II umpire in our association that has worked 6 games in a row)

For us professional (lower-case “p”) umpires, we can do 6-7 in a row. Some of us take, or are asked / requested to take, a mentor/guide/guru role within an association (however loosely that is defined by the assigner(s)). A fellow Vulture and I can bang out 6 games on a Saturday pretty easy; sure, it will be physically taxing, but mentally, it will be cruise control (in fact, most times, it’s time well spent with a good friend). Most coaches and parents recognize and appreciate it pretty quick. Then there are times when we’ll get “the new guy(s)”, and act as a mentor/guru. I’ve had game days wherein I’ve had 6, with 3 different partners, and worked BU for all 6, or 2 different partners, and I’ll PU the “middle 2”. That’s not so bad. This way, I/we get to actively guide these new guys into and thru these type of “campaigns”. I’d rather work 6 games with an “up-&-comer” than 2 games with a known stooge or clown… much less 1 game. 

For the most part, assigners – at least here – know not to abuse us. We typically have a college or inde-pro schedule that we’re actively in or preparing for, so they’ll press us into service only when needed.