First ejection in the books

[misnomer]

Well, I knew it would happen eventually, but not this quick.

I've been working for about two months at this point and have honestly really enjoyed it. I've had very few issues with coaches and parents and have had the incredible luck to have a mentor who works at a very high level being willing to talk to me and help me learn the ropes. However, I had my first ejection last week and wanted to get the opinion of the forum. For context this was a freshman game between two local private schools which I was working solo (solo is normal for sub-varsity apparantly. My few first HS games were with the association closer to where I go to college and they were 2-man but I digress).

Anyway, Team A had been arguing with me and chirping at the other team since first pitch. While the SH*# talk calms down after a very calm discussion with their coach. However, the arguing consistantly escalates as the game rolls along.

Fast forward to bottom 6. Team A is up and I call the batter out on a close play at first that I am confident that I called correctly. The bench explodes but I shrug it off. It was a bang-bang play and we'll move on. That is until the student manager decides to yell "call New York" and make the review signal.

Now the ears are up.

After a few minutes of the rest of the bench joning in with the call New York stuff, I take off my mask and say "that's enough. We're not doing that." A player on the bench then proceeds to sing Taylor Swift's Welcome to New York. While I am just as much of a Swiftie as anyone else, the song choice wasn't great, but I decide to shrug shake it off. The team continues to argue essentially every call that is even remotley close.

Now we move to the bottom of the 7th. Team A's starting pitcher (who was the first to get on me in the game) is now up to bat. 0-2 count, he swings at a ball in the dirt, catcher tags him for the second out. The batter contests that he fouled the ball off. I did not see or hear anything that would make me thinl he made contact, so I stick with my call. After a good 10 seconds of arguing and me explaining that I can't call what I didn't see or hear, he finally walks off with a "you've got to be SH*#ting me." I ring him up, the coach huffs and puffs when I ask for his name and the players run their mouths until I get to my car.

Thoughts? Questions? Comments?

[kylehutson]

Ejectable offenses:

• Personal
• Prolonged
• Profane

Personal? No, they were arguing the calls, not you, directly

Prolonged? They were getting there. As long as they didn't continue after the warning, that's probably good.

Profane? Check - you can't swear at anybody (especially in high school) and expect to stay in the game.

 

Only one quibble...

38 minutes ago, misnomer said:

While I am just as much of a Swiftie as anyone else, the song choice wasn't great, but I decide to shrug it off.

"Shake it off" was right there, and you didn't jump on it???

[misnomer]

2 minutes ago, kylehutson said:

"Shake it off" was right there, and you didn't jump on it???

Fixed it!

[SH0102]

No issue with the ejection.  Only thing that made my “spine tingle” was you letting them bitch at you all game while working solo.

I have ZERO empathy with gripers when working solo. Shut it down fast and early. Warn early, then restrict someone; then dump someone until they get the hint.

The ONLY thing I can understand griping about when working solo is professionalism (appearance, effort).  NEVER a call.  If you’re working and moving from plate to try and make a call, no one should say a peep

[misnomer]

20 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

I have ZERO empathy with gripers when working solo. Shut it down fast and early. Warn early, then restrict someone; then dump someone until they get the hint.

I had a different game a week or so back where after a call that I very well might have missed because I was 60-70' away because, ya know, I'm working alone, the third base coach while walking back to his dugout comes up to me and says "I never argue with umpires working alone, but he was safe". Safe to say, I was not thrilled.

Also, I would really appreciate if coaches didn't put their hands on umpires' shoulders when talking to them. I am on the autism spectrum and really do not like to be touched unexpectedly. I ripped away from him to stand face-to-face during this same exchange and he fully moved to do it again. He was on thin ice the rest of the game.

Finally, when it comes to effort/appearance: I make it a point to be as energetic and finley groomed as possible. It doesn't hurt being significantly younger and slimmer than most of my peers, but I clean or shine my shoes after every game and iron everything once a week. I refuse to crease the cap, though. That look needs to die.

[SH0102]

40 minutes ago, misnomer said:

never argue with umpires working alone, but he was safe"

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, misnomer said:

"I never argue with umpires working alone, but he was safe". Safe to say, I was not thrilled.

Not the approach I would have used...I have said to an umpire after my entire team erupted at a terribly wrong call, after telling the bench to shut up and calm down "I know you're working solo, and I'll keep them in check...but just so you know, you had a terrible angle, and it's not your fault, but we all saw something you didn't"   They're not right to argue/complain, and there are hundreds of legitimate reasons for a solo ump to miss a call...but don't be so jaded to dismiss a reaction...chances are, you did miss the call.  Maybe there's absolutely nothing you can do about it working solo....maybe there is.

I have also told another umpire (privately) that they need to move their ass if they don't want me putting in a formal complaint...I know you're working solo but that's not an excuse to stand behind the plate for the entire game.  This is not an exaggeration, and after a couple of innings both teams were tired of the missed calls due to this lack of motion.  (eg. called a forced runner out at second base when F6 caught the ball six feet in front of the base)  Maybe he should have tossed me - he didn't - but he got the message. 

Although it wasn't the case here (he was simply being lazy) I also fully accept that I didn't consider that he may have been ill/injured or otherwise immobile for legitimate reasons.   I am human too.  I don't ever expect a solo ump to be anywhere near perfect, but I don't want to see anyone mailing it in.  I know you're paid SH*#, and you're alone, but you're paid more than anyone else on that field, most of whom are paying your fees.   We are your customers.  That's not a license to abuse, but don't ever forget the  nature of the relationship between you and those on the field (or in the stands).

 

[JonnyCat]

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

I know you're paid SH*#, and you're alone, but you're paid more than anyone else on that field, most of whom are paying your fees.   We are your customers.  That's not a license to abuse, but don't ever forget the  nature of the relationship between you and those on the field (or in the stands).

The fee pays me to work the game and hustle my fat ass around the diamond. The fee doesn't pay for anyone to abuse me. If anyone wants to bitch at me, we better be sharing the same bed.

MLB umpires get paid a lot of money and have many perks. I don't.

[misnomer]

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

They're not right to argue/complain, and there are hundreds of legitimate reasons for a solo ump to miss a call...but don't be so jaded to dismiss a reaction...

I didn't dismiss the reaction, I actually did take it in stride and tried to be further up the line on the next call. What I didn't appreciate was the fact that the coach proceeded to argue after saying "I don't argue with an umpire working alone." It's kind of a slap in the face IMO.

[SeeingEyeDog]

@misnomer, check with your local mentor, league leadership or association leadership. When you get bench jockeying like that where you are hearing things directed at you from the dugout, you may have the power to issue a bench warning that puts the entire team on warning for arguing judgement. You just go to the head coach and say, "Coach, that's a team warning for bench jockeying. If it continues, you will be ejected." and if it does continue you have the option of going from there to a dugout restriction or the ejection depending on what happens. Coaches are responsible for the conduct of their players, sometimes the umpires have to remind them of that.

For a non-scholastic game, especially one you are working alone, you can certainly check with your authority on those games, too to determine what your options are but all we're trying to do here is administering a baseball game and keep things moving along and minimize the abuse of umpires so, as long as you can document what you did and rationally explain why you did it, the association and or league should be backing you on any progressive discipline you took.

~Dawg

[The Man in Blue]

6 hours ago, misnomer said:

I had a different game a week or so back where after a call that I very well might have missed because I was 60-70' away because, ya know, I'm working alone, the third base coach while walking back to his dugout comes up to me and says "I never argue with umpires working alone, but he was safe". Safe to say, I was not thrilled.

"It was a $60 call coach.  $60 puts another pair of eyes and a second opinion on the field when I am out of position."

6 hours ago, misnomer said:

Also, I would really appreciate if coaches didn't put their hands on umpires' shoulders when talking to them. I am on the autism spectrum and really do not like to be touched unexpectedly. I ripped away from him to stand face-to-face during this same exchange and he fully moved to do it again. He was on thin ice the rest of the game.

 There is NO reason for a coach to touch an umpire.  There is no reason in this day and age for anybody to be touching a stranger.  Tangent rant, but I feel that goes back to this "first name basis" thing.  NO.  I am not there to be your friend or your buddy.  I am your adjudicator for the day, and you are my client.  

6 hours ago, misnomer said:

I refuse to crease the cap, though. That look needs to die.

I like the new guy!

[misnomer]

1 hour ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

@misnomer, check with your local mentor, league leadership or association leadership. When you get bench jockeying like that where you are hearing things directed at you from the dugout.

~Dawg

That’s exactly what I did! My mentor and my assignor both gave me their seals of approval. However, one thing that my mentor said made me think a bit about where my tolerance should be:

”if you change it from ‘SH*#ting’ to ‘kidding,’ are you still ejecting him?” Answer: probably not.

Honestly, someone was getting tossed if I heard anything else after the “New York” thing. I didn’t know who, but I was very prepared to take that step. Not the best attitude, I know, but I learned a lot about myself and umpiring that day.

[Mad Mike]

You mentioned the following in your post: "After a few minutes of the rest of the bench joning in with the call New York stuff, I take off my mask and say "that's enough. We're not doing that." A player on the bench then proceeds to sing Taylor Swift's Welcome to New York. While I am just as much of a Swiftie as anyone else, the song choice wasn't great, but I decide to shrug shake it off. The team continues to argue essentially every call that is even remotley close."

IMO: The kid who started singing Welcome to New York should have been ejected. You just got through telling them "that's enough. We're not doing that." If you don't follow through after the warning, they will think it's okay to keep walking on you. 

Guys on the site always say, "shoot one monkey and the rest get in line." 

A lot of good advice on here. Thanks for posting. You handled this as well as could be expected for a new umpire. You have a bright future ahead of you....just don't let kids sing Taylor Swift on your field!

[dumbdumb]

("Though it's very bad to eject a player when he should not be ejected, it's far worse to keep someone in the game who should be ejected.")

Al Barlick - HOF 1989

[BLWizzRanger]

..just don't let kids sing Taylor Swift on your field!

Actually, I just looked up the printed version of the 2023 NFHS rules, and Chapter 4, Chapter 4a, or Chapter 4b says no Taylor Swift songs is allowed to be played for walk-up songs or between innings interludes.

But lets be honest here, 95% on us on here wouldnt know her songs if we heard them.


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[wolfe_man]

1 hour ago, BLWizzRanger said:

But lets be honest here, 95% on us on here wouldnt know her songs if we heard them.

 

Who's Taylor Swift?

But seriously... "Hi, I'm the problem, it's me..." 

I love the line in this song that says "I'll stare directly at the sun, but never in the mirror."  It is a perfect analogy of society on so many levels.

[834k3r]

13 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

"It was a $60 call coach.  $60 puts another pair of eyes and a second opinion on the field when I am out of position."

Last year I was working a "big field" game solo. R2 attempts a steal of third but F2 pops up, clears BR, and throws R2 out for the 3rd out. HC/3BC talks to me as he's walking back to the 1B dugout, "that was a terrible call." One of the parents from behind the backstop even told me "get out from behind the plate, blue!" (I have to call the pitch, watch for interference between BR and F2, and get to the 3B cutout? I'm not that fast.)

I responded to the coach by saying something along the lines of paying for another umpire would've gotten a better look at the play. Coach, still walking towards the dugout, says "well you didn't need to be a smart @$$ about it."

Right, wrong, or indifferent, that's stuck with me. Unless I know the coach very well, I keep my comments to myself.

[beerguy55]

15 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

The fee pays me to work the game and hustle my fat ass around the diamond. The fee doesn't pay for anyone to abuse me. If anyone wants to bitch at me, we better be sharing the same bed.

MLB umpires get paid a lot of money and have many perks. I don't.

Pretty sure I clearly said it's not a license to abuse.

Nothing you say here dispels the original statement...you are paid to deliver the service, and the people on the field, and some in the stands, are your paying customers, directly or indirectly.  The relationship is transactional.  That does not give the payor carte blanche, and does not prevent the payee from ejecting/dismissing/punishing said customer, but don't ever forget who your customers are.   That some of them are outright stupid with ridiculous expectations is a different conversation, and you will always find me an advocate for umpires in that area.

Historically speaking, whether it's league fees or tourney fees, with very few exceptions umpires make up over half of those fees (the exception being some facilities have exorbitant groundskeeping fees).  Whether you work solo or not, and regardless of how SH*#ty your pay is, the underlying fact is unchanged.  It's not the tooth fairy paying your fee.  The people who pay those fees are going to expect some return on value...and most of them will be reasonable about that.

If a paid umpire wants to mail it in, or be rude/dismissive, or lazy...I'll take the volunteer and be happy with the outcome.

 

[misnomer]

5 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

But lets be honest here, 95% on us on here wouldnt know her songs if we heard them.

 

I think that specific song was in a movie I saw when I was like 13. Also, my sister was a huge fan of her around that time so a good amount of her discography is etched into my mind.

I love how this thread has turned from talking about an ejection to a discussion on the musical stylings of Taylor Swift.

“Dread it. Run from it. Taylor Swift arrives all the same.”

[BLWizzRanger]

I think that specific song was in a movie I saw when I was like 13. Also, my sister was a huge fan of her around that time so a good amount of her discography is etched into my mind.
I love how this thread has turned from talking about an ejection to a discussion on the musical stylings of Taylor Swift.
“Dread it. Run from it. Taylor Swift arrives all the same.”

Only two of us has fessed up to know TS songs. My percentage is standing thus far...

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[JonnyCat]

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Pretty sure I clearly said it's not a license to abuse.

Yet the abuse somehow still happens and is rampant among youth sports, not just baseball.

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

and most of them will be reasonable about that.

Wrong. They're not. That's why we're in the situation we are regarding the shortage of sports officials. They're not reasonable regardless if the umpire is competent or not. Why our culture accepts yelling at sports officials is beyond me. It has to stop. There needs to be a zero tolerance policy in all of youth sports.

It reminds me of the idiots that yell at the fast food cashiers for messing up their order. What the F*#K do you expect from a minimum wage job. And why the F*#K do people feel compelled to yell and belittle people? Don't blame the employee, blame the employer for not training that person better. Or better yet, shut the F*#K up and patronize another business establishment.

That's what coaches need to do, realize it's youth sports and there is no place for abuse, and shut the F*#K up. What the F*#K do you expect from a minimum wage job? They constantly expect a major league standard from a person making peanuts. They're not professional coaches, players, or umpires. Why are only the umpires held to that standard?

They reap what they sow.

Where are all the sports officials?

[Velho]

2 hours ago, misnomer said:

I think that specific song was in a movie I saw when I was like 13

I was 16 when Taylor Swift was BORN!

[beerguy55]

30 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

Wrong. They're not. That's why we're in the situation we are regarding the shortage of sports officials. They're not reasonable regardless if the umpire is competent or not. Why our culture accepts yelling at sports officials is beyond me. It has to stop. There needs to be a zero tolerance policy in all of youth sports.

It reminds me of the idiots that yell at the fast food cashiers for messing up their order. What the F*#K do you expect from a minimum wage job. And why the F*#K do people feel compelled to yell and belittle people? Don't blame the employee, blame the employer for not training that person better. Or better yet, shut the F*#K up and patronize another business establishment.

That's what coaches need to do, realize it's youth sports and there is no place for abuse, and shut the F*#K up. What the F*#K do you expect from a minimum wage job? They constantly expect a major league standard from a person making peanuts. They're not professional coaches, players, or umpires. Why are only the umpires held to that standard?

There's no place for the abuse.  The coaches need to shut up and be held accountable.  Suspensions and expulsions.  Fines.  And the parents on an even shorter leash.  Coaches need to hold their parents to account.  TD's and league officials need to back and protect the umpires.   And, let's see umpires and umpire associations tell people to pound sand if they show no interest in correcting the problem...Hell, with a resource shortage you have leverage

At the same time, whether you're minimum wage or not, you're paid to do a job.  The burger flipper at McDonald's does have to adhere to a performance standard, even if it's a low one, and should be rebuked, trained, mentored, re-rebuked, replaced as needed/appropriate...without the abuse.

Getting rid of all the abuse doesn't alleviate the employee of their job requirements.  And maybe if we reach Utopia where no umpire is abused, then maybe more will want to join the ranks, and then maybe we can either weed out the bad ones...or incentivize them to improve.  

In the end, you don't need umpires, coaches or parents to have a ball game...kids in school yards and parks prove that every day.

Yup, solo umping is hard, and there's going to be misses...but I don't want to see a solo ump coming with a ready made excuse "boohoo, I'm all alone".  Because I've seen many amateur solo umps achieve excellence on a consistent basis...by simply being engaged and motivated.

 I don't expect excellence...and certainly not anything that resembles perfect or pro standards...no matter the size of the crew.  But I do expect engagement.  If the ump is engaged everything else typically falls into place.

 

 

Attacking the umpire is nothing new.  It may be exacerbated.  It may be more public because everyone has a phone, and everyone wants to film a Karen.  But remember that the poem "Casey at the Bat" after strike one a fan yells "kill the umpire" and after strike two a fan yells "fraud"...in 1888.   So, you are going to be dealing with a cultural shift.

 

[JonnyCat]

39 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

There's no place for the abuse.  The coaches need to shut up and be held accountable.  Suspensions and expulsions.  Fines.  And the parents on an even shorter leash.  Coaches need to hold their parents to account.  TD's and league officials need to back and protect the umpires.   And, let's see umpires and umpire associations tell people to pound sand if they show no interest in correcting the problem...Hell, with a resource shortage you have leverage

Agree 100%

40 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

At the same time, whether you're minimum wage or not, you're paid to do a job.  The burger flipper at McDonald's does have to adhere to a performance standard, even if it's a low one, and should be rebuked, trained, mentored, re-rebuked, replaced as needed/appropriate...without the abuse.

Getting rid of all the abuse doesn't alleviate the employee of their job requirements.  And maybe if we reach Utopia where no umpire is abused, then maybe more will want to join the ranks, and then maybe we can either weed out the bad ones...or incentivize them to improve. 

I agree there are performance standards, but they are comparable to the job conditions and rate of pay. I someone works a SH*#ty job with low pay and lousy working conditions, how much rebuking do you expect them to take from the boss, let alone heaps of abuse from the customers/coaches? If I'm working a low pay job and getting loads of abuse, I'm not sticking around. The learning curve with umpiring is difficult. Therein lies the problem, in order to be a good umpire, you need training and experience. With umpiring, experience also means a ton of mistakes early in your career. New umpires often get abused a lot, and don't stick around, and rightly so. And with SH*#ty pay and lousy working conditions, what's the incentive to spend time and money on training? Few people do, and most leave the avocation after 3 years or less. 

50 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

 I don't expect excellence...and certainly not anything that resembles perfect or pro standards...no matter the size of the crew.  But I do expect engagement.  If the ump is engaged everything else typically falls into place.

The reality is, most everyone does expect perfection. You're in the minority. I'm a very competent umpire, with lots of training. I hustle and take each game very seriously, as do many of my colleagues. Yet I hear complaints every game. Every-single-one, without fail. Most are minor, some are major. Nobody cares how good I am, or how much training or hustle I have. Nobody cares if it's the right call, or the right rule interpretation. If they don't like the call, they let us know. Coaches and fans want us to get the call right, my ass. How many times has a coach actually argued the wrong call that benefited their team? Never!

59 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Attacking the umpire is nothing new.  It may be exacerbated.  It may be more public because everyone has a phone, and everyone wants to film a Karen.  But remember that the poem "Casey at the Bat" after strike one a fan yells "kill the umpire" and after strike two a fan yells "fraud"...in 1888.   So, you are going to be dealing with a cultural shift.

Don't care if it is nothing new, so is crime and a host of other things. Doesn't make it right, just, or moral. Where are all the umpires?

BTW, great discussion!

 

[blue23ll]

What took you so long to dump somebody?