This Just In........

[Vegas_Ump]

A friend contacted me yesterday that on the news, there was a lengthy story about how Youth Leagues can't get umpires because the parents are obnoxious, unruly, and even violent towards umpires.  I explained that's why I quit two years ago!  People are just noticing this?

My friend told me it was a NATIONAL story!  Although they didn't mention Little League, Inc., specifically, all youth ball seemed to have this problem.

There are a ton of clips on YouTube that document violence against umpires, volunteer or paid.  The problem its not just baseball!  Football and Basketball show the same kind violence.

This just in!  Somebody just now noticed it's a problem?

Now, where do higher level sports officials get started?  Usually Youth sports leagues.  How do they get seasoned for higher levels?  Well, experience, but what's happening is that there are fewer folks who want to subject themselves to this nonsense.  So you get less-experienced people fleeting up to High School, NCAA, and pros more quickly.  And what do you hear now at pro levels (NHL and NBA are quite visible with playoffs right now)?  There is always a snipe and the officials!  Maybe some of it is technically correct, but what do you expect when these officials have not been seasoned as well as the past.  And of course there are always armchair officials and Little League parents who think they know the rules.

Broadcasters are trying to have a rule expert at the ready to explain some of the odd plays;  that helps!  But try to explain LL Rule 7.13 to a dad with an attitude!

Sorry for the rant!  I'm afraid the game for which I was a volunteer ump for 34 years has deteriorated to a vulgar brawl!

Mike

Las Vegas

 

 

[Velho]

Agreed @Vegas_Ump

I randomly googled "youth umpire shortage 1999" and this was the third result

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-apr-15-sp-27766-story.html

LA Times may be "fish wrap" but it's a national newspaper. People don't notice because their kids go in and out of sports and they don't REALLY care about fixing it.

[ArchAngel72]

I think it has been an ongoing thing for decades. However I do feel it has gotten drastically worse in the past 4 years.

Covid being one of the things.

 

My league we lost 2 (jr) umpires who went to college and decided the fun life was more important. ( hey cant blame them Been there done that got the T shirt) 

But we have a early adult Umpire who has not grabbed nearly as many games as he used to due to work keeping him from handling what he used to.  I also wonder how much of that is he does not want to give up week nights too.

Also I look around at the Umpiring stock at the level I do and they are mostly middle age and later to nearing retirement.

But again what I am seeing is local.  I wish I got out of my area more often.

[Mudisfun]

Some thoughts... 

The vast majority of umpires (really, any official) I know started as volunteer umpires due to their kids participation in youth sports. Most people in our avocation don't wake up in the middle of the night and suddenly think to themselves: self, you know what is missing in my life? Someone throwing baseballs at me. The more our local leagues which are begging for volunteers to fill the role refuse to address poor behavior, the faster the quality of their program declines and the quicker the BS in their leagues escalates.

Covid, at least with the groups I associate with really hit us hard. Many of our officials from the youth level through HS were already 65+ and suddenly they went from 3-7 games a week, being physically active to suddenly sitting on a recliner for 12-18 months. Some of them straight decided to move on, as the habit of officiating had been broken and which was really the only thing keeping them involved. Some did try and come back, but the 12-18 months of not doing 200-300 knee bends a night suddenly hit them with a vengeance. They found that they were seriously out of shape for umpiring (solo in many cases) and the 5-6 day bounce back time, the pain and stiffness was just not worth the $70-$80 bucks they received so they left. And of course there were actual Covid cases which caused us to lose people, be it their passing or having survived but experienced side effects which made them unable to officiate.

And the elephant in the room, which we all talk about, but which does not seem to be getting better: overall people behavior. I don't care if it is a player, assistant coach, coach, manager, TD spectator or parent, the crap being hurled at us from inside and outside the fence is ridiculous and is only becoming more pronounced. Web pages devoted to promoting bad behavior, Facebook posts showing officials being assaulted and the comments, many of which have people actually agreeing with the assault because of some perceived 'bad call' all tend to enforce the poor behavior as acceptable. Municipalities, leagues, PD's and DA's refusing to punish the offenders in the most harsh manner available to them either by suspending, removing or prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law the people actually crossing the line from yelling to assaulting just emboldens the next crowd of upset people. 

Personally, the issue we are seeing is a reflection of the current behavior model in our society. I am not responsible for my actions, someone else is at fault. We have a generation who have poor interpersonal communication skills. They see something online and they post a reply; no consideration to the reply being inflammatory or just plain rude, they have no filter between their brain and mouth. Now these people are out in public and since they have not been forced to engage a filter, they continue in their behavior model, which then emboldens others in the crowd and then we get to a critical mass where people lose their minds. It has to stop somewhere... enforcing the rules, policing the leagues and enforcing the laws when it gets to that point is really the only solution. Until that happens, we will continue to see a decline in officials.

 

 

[834k3r]

15 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

Some thoughts... 

The vast majority of umpires (really, any official) I know started as volunteer umpires due to their kids participation in youth sports. Most people in our avocation don't wake up in the middle of the night and suddenly think to themselves: self, you know what is missing in my life? Someone throwing baseballs at me. The more our local leagues which are begging for volunteers to fill the role refuse to address poor behavior, the faster the quality of their program declines and the quicker the BS in their leagues escalates.

Covid, at least with the groups I associate with really hit us hard. Many of our officials from the youth level through HS were already 65+ and suddenly they went from 3-7 games a week, being physically active to suddenly sitting on a recliner for 12-18 months. Some of them straight decided to move on, as the habit of officiating had been broken and which was really the only thing keeping them involved. Some did try and come back, but the 12-18 months of not doing 200-300 knee bends a night suddenly hit them with a vengeance. They found that they were seriously out of shape for umpiring (solo in many cases) and the 5-6 day bounce back time, the pain and stiffness was just not worth the $70-$80 bucks they received so they left. And of course there were actual Covid cases which caused us to lose people, be it their passing or having survived but experienced side effects which made them unable to officiate.

And the elephant in the room, which we all talk about, but which does not seem to be getting better: overall people behavior. I don't care if it is a player, assistant coach, coach, manager, TD spectator or parent, the crap being hurled at us from inside and outside the fence is ridiculous and is only becoming more pronounced. Web pages devoted to promoting bad behavior, Facebook posts showing officials being assaulted and the comments, many of which have people actually agreeing with the assault because of some perceived 'bad call' all tend to enforce the poor behavior as acceptable. Municipalities, leagues, PD's and DA's refusing to punish the offenders in the most harsh manner available to them either by suspending, removing or prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law the people actually crossing the line from yelling to assaulting just emboldens the next crowd of upset people. 

Personally, the issue we are seeing is a reflection of the current behavior model in our society. I am not responsible for my actions, someone else is at fault. We have a generation who have poor interpersonal communication skills. They see something online and they post a reply; no consideration to the reply being inflammatory or just plain rude, they have no filter between their brain and mouth. Now these people are out in public and since they have not been forced to engage a filter, they continue in their behavior model, which then emboldens others in the crowd and then we get to a critical mass where people lose their minds. It has to stop somewhere... enforcing the rules, policing the leagues and enforcing the laws when it gets to that point is really the only solution. Until that happens, we will continue to see a decline in officials.

 

 

+1 (is that still a thing?)

I believe spectator and coach behavior to be the main reason we're low on officials in all sports. I'm one of the minority that don't believe it's low pay. I wholeheartedly believe the people that won't officiate for the current pay rates won't officiate for increased pay rates either.

[Mudisfun]

1 hour ago, 834k3r said:

+1 (is that still a thing?)

I believe spectator and coach behavior to be the main reason we're low on officials in all sports. I'm one of the minority that don't believe it's low pay. I wholeheartedly believe the people that won't officiate for the current pay rates won't officiate for increased pay rates either.

1/2 my buddies do LL exclusively... all volunteer. So the money issue is a secondary motivator for many people.

[The Man in Blue]

11 hours ago, 834k3r said:

+1 (is that still a thing?)

I believe spectator and coach behavior to be the main reason we're low on officials in all sports. I'm one of the minority that don't believe it's low pay. I wholeheartedly believe the people that won't officiate for the current pay rates won't officiate for increased pay rates either.

 

I still contend "more money" will make it worse.  It will attract more of the wrong element to the avocation.  I don't know of one umpire or former umpire who says, "You know what, for an extra $10 you CAN call me a c***sucker."

I will steal this next bit from another umpire: The only way "more money" will fix things is if it is money invested in training, education, and helping new guys/gals get gear and uniforms.

[Velho]

11 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

The only way "more money" will fix things is if it is money invested in training, education, and helping new guys/gals get gear and uniforms.

Or just give each kid the [insert local MLB superstar here] $250M contract now. It's inevitable they will get those eventually, right? 😉

[Mudisfun]

12 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

I still contend "more money" will make it worse.  It will attract more of the wrong element to the avocation.  I don't know of one umpire or former umpire who says, "You know what, for an extra $10 you CAN call me a c***sucker."

I will steal this next bit from another umpire: The only way "more money" will fix things is if it is money invested in training, education, and helping new guys/gals get gear and uniforms.

Umpire : Call me a cocksucker again, and you're outta here.

Crash Davis : You're a cocksucker.

Umpire : You're... *outta*!

 

 

[The Man in Blue]

I said it was a ___ing call, you can’t throw me for that!

Best part of the scene: *Turns off the radio*

[beerguy55]

14 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I still contend "more money" will make it worse.  It will attract more of the wrong element to the avocation.  I don't know of one umpire or former umpire who says, "You know what, for an extra $10 you CAN call me a c***sucker."

I will steal this next bit from another umpire: The only way "more money" will fix things is if it is money invested in training, education, and helping new guys/gals get gear and uniforms

And I will steal another line - we're all whores, it's just a matter of establishing the price.

We all have a line where we'll accept the price and what comes with it.

At the same time, the theory goes like this...more money leads to more umpires...more umpires (with better pay) leads to more quality umpires, and continuously lower performing umpires can be exited.

More quality umpires, and a higher quality product, leads to LESS (not zero, not anything close to zero) arguing from coaches/fans/etc, and, more importantly, less escalation.

The other side of that coin is the more you're being paid the higher expectations people are going to have.

 

So, ultimately, I say more money fixes this if that money is funded by coach and fan fines for their moronic behavior.

 

 

[The Man in Blue]

If statistically 20% of umpires are "quality umpires" then more money brings in at least 8 more morons for every 2 potentially good umpires.  More bad umpires.

Another thought on how money can matter: don't pay everybody the same thing.  Pay good umpires more money and lesser umpires less money.  

 

I still believe offering more up front brings in the wrong crowd.  Increased minimum wages have not resulted in a better work force.  In fact, it has given us a worse workforce since businesses see people as an expenditure instead of an investment and only want to pay the minimum.  

[wolfe_man]

11 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

If statistically 20% of umpires are "quality umpires" then more money brings in at least 8 more morons for every 2 potentially good umpires.  More bad umpires.

Another thought on how money can matter: don't pay everybody the same thing.  Pay good umpires more money and lesser umpires less money.  

 

I still believe offering more up front brings in the wrong crowd.  Increased minimum wages have not resulted in a better work force.  In fact, it has given us a worse workforce since businesses do not see people as an expenditure instead of an investment and only want to pay the minimum.  

Time! That's a foul!

You can't use logic in a passionate argument.  Let's keep it clean!

Start waxing poetic about how much it'll help the kids if we get paid more. 😈

[JonnyCat]

13 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I still believe offering more up front brings in the wrong crowd.  Increased minimum wages have not resulted in a better work force.  In fact, it has given us a worse workforce since businesses do not see people as an expenditure instead of an investment and only want to pay the minimum.  

I'd like to try better pay, how about that! 

Why the F*#K is anyone arguing against raising the pay when we all know it's for SH*#? Why wouldn't you want more pay even if in your mind it doesn't help? Do you not want your pay to be commensurate with your skills, education, and investment? WTF? You actually believe that raising the pay won't help? Of course it will, and why aren't we all advocating for it? Stop making excuses for the crappy pay. Get out of that mindset.

Umpiring should not be a minimum wage job, nor should we accept it as such. Period.

The minimum wage jobs you reference are low skilled and need little training. They are entry level jobs that require a limited skill set. Would you say the same about umpiring?

I referenced this type of complacency in another thread regarding waiting for game fees. We know the abuse is there, we know the TD's and associations take advantage of us, and we know the pay is for SH*#.

And people are actually going to advocate not raising the pay because it won't help? SMFH!

[The Man in Blue]

@JonnyCat you can pay me more, you should be paying me more.  My argument is paying everybody more isn't the answer.  That buys more bodies to throw on the steaming pyre of sh1+, not more minds that are willing to work at improving their skills and the game.  Incentivize working at and being a good umpire.  Provide the training we need.

Minimum wage jobs don't "need little training," they receive little training.  That isn't the fault of the person working the job.  As we can see now, those jobs do need better training to provide better service.  As minimum wage has gone up, the return on it goes down exponentially because training is the first thing employers cut.  Yet, like umpiring, we've just thrown our hands in the air and said "We'll suffer with this crappy service because we can save a dime."

I see the two as very tangled together.  We aren't talking about paying umpires more.  We are talking about raising the umpires' minimum wage that everybody gets no matter how good or how SH*#ty they are.  The difference with minimum wage is I can work my way into earning more at that job.  With umpiring, the only way I can do that is to stop working 95% of what is available.  Then I am no longer making more anyway.

Ask yourself this question and provide an honest answer: "Are you a better umpire if you make $10 more per game?"

[wolfe_man]

For the record, I will definitely accept more pay.

It that was in doubt, please let me clarify.

I, wolfe_man, will accept higher pay for umpiring baseball.

In return, I promise that I will continue to seek more training and will perform with a high level of professionalism in my conduct and appearance.

[SH0102]

)

[BLWizzRanger]

2 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

For the record, I will definitely accept more pay.

It that was in doubt, please let me clarify.

I, wolfe_man, will accept higher pay for umpiring baseball.

In return, I promise that I will continue to seek more training and will perform with a high level of professionalism in my conduct and appearance.

In return, I promise that I will continue to seek more training and will perform with a high level of professionalism in my conduct and appearance and buy more equipment, not necessarily in this order.

IFIFU,

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

In return, I promise that I will continue to seek more training and will perform with a high level of professionalism in my conduct and appearance and buy more equipment, not necessarily in this order.

IFIFU,

I'm still convinced his "retirement" was just a ruse to sell all of his stuff and start over without his wife getting mad.

[beerguy55]

20 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

If statistically 20% of umpires are "quality umpires" then more money brings in at least 8 more morons for every 2 potentially good umpires.  More bad umpires.

That's only true if we hire 100% of all new umpires that apply, and we keep 100% of all umpires already in place.  Or we don't have a good mechanism to identify the best candidates.

The higher pay should attract higher quality people along with a lot of crappy people, but you now have more choice to weed out the chaff...either as part of the hiring process, or the evaluation/probation process....and maybe even gives you an ability to get rid of existing problem umpires (or give them incentive to get better)

Today, is there any umpiring association turning anyone away who doesn't pass a police background check?  We are that desperate right now, aren't we?  And have been for a while? 

I think we want to get past the point of accepting anyone willing to put on the uniform and pass a test.  And frankly, I have a hard time believing a lot of the umpires out there passed any test....they spelt their name right.

6 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Ask yourself this question and provide an honest answer: "Are you a better umpire if you make $10 more per game?"

No...you should make $10 more a game because you are a better umpire.

 

[JonnyCat]

7 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Minimum wage jobs don't "need little training," they receive little training.  That isn't the fault of the person working the job.  As we can see now, those jobs do need better training to provide better service.  As minimum wage has gone up, the return on it goes down exponentially because training is the first thing employers cut.  Yet, like umpiring, we've just thrown our hands in the air and said "We'll suffer with this crappy service because we can save a dime."

No, minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs that don't require a whole lot of training and skill. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to flip burgers at McDonalds. Minimal training is all it takes for someone to master that skill. Employers haven't cut training because minimum wage has gone up. What it's resulted in is less staffing, and consequently crappier service. It's less of the same people doing those jobs.

In my area, no one is working those minimum wage jobs because they don't pay enough to live in Southern California. They can't pay more because the market, especially in the restaurant industry, can't sustain those wages. Nearly every business here that has to pay minimum wage is under staffed. Staffing gets cut, and service suffers. Our restaurant industry is suffering because people are not eating out as much because of the cost. Nothing to do with training.

7 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Ask yourself this question and provide an honest answer: "Are you a better umpire if you make $10 more per game?"

No, but I would work more games for pay if the wages were more. After working all week, $190.00 gross for 9 hours+ of work on a Sunday is not enough to entice me to get out there. For $4-500.0? You bet. A lot of people would.

Like Beerguy55 has said, more pay equals more people, and a larger pool of people to choose from. If you have a larger pool to chose from, assigners will be picking the more qualified umpires. Now the result is that if guys want to work games for that level of pay, they have to get better. That same system works in college officiating across the board. They pay the most, they get the better umpires. And last time I checked, NCAA doesn't do a whole lot of training. You have to get that on your own.

You have to incentives people to get better. The same methodology we've been using ain't working. Time to try something else.

Where are all the umpires?

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

That's only true if we hire 100% of all new umpires that apply, and we keep 100% of all umpires already in place.  Or we don't have a good mechanism to identify the best candidates.

The higher pay should attract higher quality people along with a lot of crappy people, but you now have more choice to weed out the chaff...either as part of the hiring process, or the evaluation/probation process....and maybe even gives you an ability to get rid of existing problem umpires (or give them incentive to get better)

Today, is there any umpiring association turning anyone away who doesn't pass a police background check?  We are that desperate right now, aren't we?  And have been for a while? 

I think we want to get past the point of accepting anyone willing to put on the uniform and pass a test.  And frankly, I have a hard time believing a lot of the umpires out there passed any test....they spelt their name right.

No...you should make $10 more a game because you are a better umpire.

 

 

We aren't as far apart on this as you might think.  You hit on the all the main points and even identified the actual problem with it all.

Casting more nets does bring in more fish.  It also results in more needless work to weed out the ones that need thrown back.  

Only my state association for scholastic sports requires you to actually attend training and pass a test.  The training is a joke and is only every few years and the test is an open book test that is available in advance.  Even if you fail the test, you are only put on probation until the next year's cycle.  The only person I have ever known to fail a test was a new guy this year.  He went to the local association "review meeting" and wrote down the answers to all 50 questions -- well, he wrote down A, C, D, D, B, etc.  When he took the test, he didn't pay any attention to the fact that the questions are randomized from the question bank and he just quickly put in A, C, D, D, B, etc.  Then he couldn't figure out what to do with the remaining 25 "answers" he had written down.  🙄 

Every other association just requires you to pay money and pass their background check.  Honestly, I don't even believe they conduct the background check they charge you for.  I'm cynical.

The key problem you hit on is that there is no oversight.  Just alphabet orgs wanting to take your check and sell you hats and shirts.

[wolfe_man]

14 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I'm still convinced his "retirement" was just a ruse to sell all of his stuff and start over without his wife getting mad.

I may try it again this summer!  Keep your eyes peeled!

[Thatsnotyou]

I’ve been thinking about the shortage in regards to my motivation to work more games, especially travel games when HS season ends. I’m not that likely to drive 20+ minutes away to do a single game for 70/75. That probably doesn’t have a time limit, and may very well be bad baseball. I’m out of the house for at least 3 hours. The ROI is bad. 
 

If it was 90-100? I’d be much more likely to take it. Everyone has a price where they’d go from “no” to “yes”. Every $5 increment captures more available umpires. 
 

I really don’t think raising some rates 15-20 will create a ton of new umpires, but I do think it will get current umpires to cover more games. It’s not a perfect solution, but it would help with coverage while we try to fix the “not enough umpires” problem. 
 

Turn some of these 13-15u travel games from two man to one man and pay me 100-110 and I’ll pick up more of them. It also saves the teams money. Win/win. Ok so the call at 2nd is tougher in a whatever travel game. So what? 

Or, instead of 2 man on 11u tournament games, let me do a DH myself, pay me 200 (or 220 which is 1.5x), and let the next guy do 2. I just saved the tournament 160-200 over those 4 games, and made sure the games were covered.

 

I also like the idea of paying better, more qualified officials more. I’ve been a HS umpire X years at the highest promotion level? I’ve worked playoffs? Yeah, I probably should get more than year one guy. I’m simply doing a much better job. My services are more valuable. 

[The Man in Blue]

4 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

Turn some of these 13-15u travel games from two man to one man and pay me 100-110 and I’ll pick up more of them. It also saves the teams money. Win/win. Ok so the call at 2nd is tougher in a whatever travel game. So what? 

Or, instead of 2 man on 11u tournament games, let me do a DH myself, pay me 200 (or 220 which is 1.5x), and let the next guy do 2. I just saved the tournament 160-200 over those 4 games, and made sure the games were covered.

I also like the idea of paying better, more qualified officials more. I’ve been a HS umpire X years at the highest promotion level? I’ve worked playoffs? Yeah, I probably should get more than year one guy. I’m simply doing a much better job. My services are more valuable. 

My personal opinion, that is not a win/win.  It is a short-term solution that causes more long term problems.  Lose the war to win a battle.

If we give in and accept this “during the shortage” it will become the norm.  Then there will eventually be more umpires … who will be working these one-man scenarios.  Then the tourney folks and league folks will be used to only having one umpire … and since you want $110 I can get that other guy for $90 … so if you want it, I’m paying $90.

Why do we care if we are saving the tourney guy $20 or $40 a game?  He is pocketing profit.  If you were to tell me this was for your local rec program where the money goes back into giving kids opportunities, OK.  
 

Giving up and working these one-man scams for a few more bucks is cutting off your nose to spite your face.