RBIbaseball Posted May 18, 2023 Report Share Posted May 18, 2023 I'm not talking a 20-0 route and showing a little mercy to get folks home... I'm talking about an average HS varsity game... I had a game a couple weeks ago with a respected veteran umpire in my region (has went to state finals a couple times)... R1 stealing second, ball beats runner by 2 steps. Due to poor tag / great slide, F6 whiffs the swipe tag, missing runner by a couple inches through entire tag. Think MLB swim move, but just not as fancy. I call safe, "no tag", and give the safe signal a second time. F6 knows it and does some self reflection, I hear it from the 3B dugout / fans on how can I miss that "ball beat him by a mile", but no one comes to argue. Anyways, half inning, my PU asks me what I saw, and I tell him. His response, "you gotta get an out there". "You're the only one in the ballpark that knows he's safe, just get an out"... Went on to talk about game management, etc. Asked another veteran umpire about that advice and he said something along the lines of, once you get more experience you'll know when you should make the "smart call, over the correct call" or something along those lines.... Thoughts? I'm a get it right integrity kind of guy, and F the noise of anything after... I'm out there to get the call right for that kid in that moment that did or didn't make a play... Do you guys suggest I take this advice and adjust my mindset. Would that make me a "better" umpire? ... Serious question. Thanks 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchAngel72 Posted May 18, 2023 Report Share Posted May 18, 2023 My thoughts.. EFFE NO!.. In a living close game you make the call as you see it I do not give a damn what the dugouts or fans think. You make the right call. Now 20-0 route and thats the winning team Yep I am banging him out and not caring one bit.. you are still running on a team when you are up 20 to zero Im calling you out if its close.. my thoughts anyway 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch18 Posted May 18, 2023 Report Share Posted May 18, 2023 That’s an “umpire to the dugout” call - which used to be the way to go from the dawn of time until about the mid 2000s.We now umpire to the camera; everybody sees everything, can go back and review everything…chop you up and post it for the world to see. That’s just the way it is now. Your call was correct. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeingEyeDog Posted May 18, 2023 Report Share Posted May 18, 2023 @RBIbaseball, this is 2023. In a competitive game, you call 'em like you see 'em. Strikes and outs get us home, yes...but not in a competitive game. Also unacceptable...the eff-you strike on a pitch in the dirt or over the backstop because you want to grind the coach's gears. If you have a problem? Warn and or eject. We don't abuse The Game and undermine The Craft because we don't know how to otherwise administrate a baseball game. ~Dawg 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudisfun Posted May 18, 2023 Report Share Posted May 18, 2023 Just remember that most likely there are 15 cameras on you at all times... every parent, grandparent, recruiter/scout at a 12U game... whatever. Trust me... I made it to the front page of the 'Umpire Hate' Instagram page with a safe/out call at home taken from outside the fence, down the 1st base line... cannot even see the plate in the video and was amazed A) by the number of my friends who called/texted me literally 2 minutes after it posted, B) the number of people who, without even being able to see where the plate is decided I blew the call and conversely how many people without being able to see the plate agreed with my call, etc, etc... What really blew my mind was how many umpires subscribe to a page named 'Umpire Hate'. Felt like watching rattle snakes commit suicide. Moral of this tale: call what you see and don't make up calls. No one is going to know when you are getting internet love that you did not ask for, that the game was 20-0. All they are going to see is you making a call which after being dissected frame by frame in slow-mo is obviously incorrect, or in their mind is obviously incorrect. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elares Posted May 18, 2023 Report Share Posted May 18, 2023 The pressure I get to make the "expected call" instead calling what I see is half the issue making me want to quit. The other part is pressure to "not see" things like improper baseballs and participants out of the dugouts. I believe the right thing to do is call what you see. My problem is that I'm running out of organizations in my search for one that will support me and I'm getting tired of being called an asshole. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue4u Posted May 18, 2023 Report Share Posted May 18, 2023 1 hour ago, elares said: My problem is that I'm running out of organizations in my search for one that will support me and I'm getting tired of being called an asshole. Did you ever consider the reason you are being called an "asshole," is possibly because you are acting like one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elares Posted May 18, 2023 Report Share Posted May 18, 2023 Oh yes I have. I have condidered it and I have been one. I know why I was too severe early and every year I've softened and un-assholed. The last few years I've been downright folksy and agreeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maven Posted May 19, 2023 Report Share Posted May 19, 2023 The days of the expected call have gone. With even amateur fields having multiple cameras on plays, we should make the right call. That philosophy has taken over for a generation in pro ball now, and needs to displace the old guard in amateur ball as well. That is my opinion, offered entirely without justification at this time. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH0102 Posted May 19, 2023 Report Share Posted May 19, 2023 Coach: “Mr rbi, how can you miss/make that call?” Mr RBI: “coach, the ball beat him by a mile. Calling him out would be an easy call.” Coach: “so why did you call him safe?” Mr RBI: “because it’s the correct call” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH0102 Posted May 19, 2023 Report Share Posted May 19, 2023 “Solo umpiring, he’s out. You’re paying for a second umpire to get that call correct” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richvee Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 A respected D1 umpire I've had the pleasure of learning from on multiple occasions dropped a quote last winter that I just love. "We used to umpire for the dugouts. Now, we need to umpire for the cameras" 'Nuff said. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac266 Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 On 5/18/2023 at 9:00 AM, RBIbaseball said: I'm a get it right integrity kind of guy, and F the noise of anything after... I'm out there to get the call right for that kid in that moment that did or didn't make a play... Do you guys suggest I take this advice and adjust my mindset. Would that make me a "better" umpire? ... Serious question. Thanks You and I would get along well. If he was safe, I'm calling safe every time. Don't sacrifice your integrity just to get to beer thirty sooner. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
834k3r Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 ^^^^ This. Integrity means everything and I feel once an umpire loses it, the umpire needs to hang up his mask. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerguy55 Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 23 hours ago, 834k3r said: Integrity means everything and I feel once an umpire loses it, the umpire needs to hang up his mask. On 5/22/2023 at 8:32 AM, mac266 said: You and I would get along well. If he was safe, I'm calling safe every time. Don't sacrifice your integrity just to get to beer thirty sooner. I mostly agree...but "integrity" and "following the rules" and "being correct" don't always align. Integrity is doing the right thing for the right reason...integrity is more in line with ethical behavior than just "following the rules". So, yeah, in a 20-0 game on a close play at second base, it would not be unethical to use your judgment to make the call that puts the losing team out of its misery (if they are in misery...if they're having a great time and enjoying the game, go with it). Where you would lose integrity is if you wouldn't make the same decision if the scores were reversed. And if you are a stickler for the rules...well, by rule your judgment is always right. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umpire in Chief Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 Making a wrong call on purpose, absolutely not - can be "mild" exceptions for euthanizing an out of control game within reason. However... I believe umpires need to go out there with a get outs mindset. Every pitch is a strike - until proven otherwise. Every play is an out - until proven otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noumpere Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Umpire in Chief said: Making a wrong call on purpose, absolutely not - can be "mild" exceptions for euthanizing an out of control game within reason. However... I believe umpires need to go out there with a get outs mindset. Every pitch is a strike - until proven otherwise. Every play is an out - until proven otherwise. Never make a wrong call on purpose. Part of the art of umpiring, is knowing what to look for (and, "what to look for" varies by level and has changed over the years) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaluck Posted May 24, 2023 Report Share Posted May 24, 2023 The correct call is always the correct call. If R1 made a great slide to make it to second why would we call him out just because the throw beat him there by two steps? (other than maybe those situations discussed above). If the ball was hit to F3 and F1 was covering first and beat the BR by 3 steps but missed the base would you call out or safe? OP you did the right thing given the situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatsnotyou Posted May 28, 2023 Report Share Posted May 28, 2023 On 5/23/2023 at 1:48 PM, Umpire in Chief said: However... I believe umpires need to go out there with a get outs mindset. Every pitch is a strike - until proven otherwise. Every play is an out - until proven otherwise. I disagree. I think this primes umpires to get things wrong. Blank slate - call what you see. If you’re thinking strike strike strike, you’re more likely to have a gross miss. If you’re thinking out out out, you’re more likely to bang a guy out that wasn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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