Pulling yoru team off a field

[Guest Pete Cimino]

Is it legal for a coach to pull his team off the field while at bat & give up their last out to speed up the game to ensure they get a win? If it is not allowed, can you refer me to a rulebook or passage in a rulebook that states what the rule is?

[Jimurray]

16 minutes ago, Guest Pete Cimino said:

Is it legal for a coach to pull his team off the field while at bat & give up their last out to speed up the game to ensure they get a win? If it is not allowed, can you refer me to a rulebook or passage in a rulebook that states what the rule is?

For your OP we use this rule:

OBR:

"7.03 Forfeited Games (a)  A game may be forfeited to the opposing team when a team: (1)  Fails to appear upon the field, or being upon the field, refuses to start play within five minutes after the umpirein-chief has called “Play” at the appointed hour for beginning the game, unless such delayed appearance is, in the umpire-in-chief’s judgment, unavoidable; (2)  Employs tactics palpably designed to delay or shorten the game;"

It is not used at certain levels where all involved want to go home. But how would shortening the game in your OP ensure a win?

[ArchAngel72]

What is he doing pulling runners off the bases back to the dug out?

How is this making the game shorter to ensure they win?

what level of plays is this?

 

[Jay R.]

Presumably this has to do with some sort of time limit---perhaps they're past a no-new-inning point but before an "end the game" time. I've umpired youth games with such a system (eg, no new inning after two hours, and games end at the 2:30 mark) in which the score would revert back to the score at the last completed inning if the outcome changed in the last inning and the home team didn't get a chance to bat.

As @Jimurray said, you might get a consensus for a team to stop batting if the game was out of hand and it was a very low-level game. But that would have to be arranged and agreed to by both coaches. 

If it's competitive enough that they're concerned about managing the clock in extra innings, you should talk to the league administration/umpire-in-chief/assignor about how they want you to manage this situation.

In the league where I worked (a competitive Little League chapter):
-- If they're refusing to bat or literally pulling people off the field, that would be a forfeit. 
-- Penalize overt stalling tactics with balls or strikes as appropriate. After multiple offenses in the last inning, warn that they're approaching forfeit territory, and get ready to call it. (I only ever got as far calling one ball or strike in the last inning.)
-- Assuming that pitchers were pitching (legally, not quick pitching), we should not be too concerned with the outcome (pitchers intentionally walking batters on four pitches, or batters intentionally striking out). 
-- There are ways to guarantee that you get out (swinging at every pitch, and walking to the dugout if the catcher drops the ball).
-- We were not to allow anything that we deemed dangerous or obviously unsporting. (Another thread in this forum asked about a runner bunting and running after and grabbing the ball for an interference call. That, to me, would probably cross the line, given the likelihood of a collision.) 

To go back to your original question, no, no major code of baseball allows the offense to formally end its inning early. (Other bat-and-ball games, notably cricket, do have such a provision.)

[CoachPeteC]

On 5/12/2023 at 12:26 PM, Jimurray said:

For your OP we use this rule:

OBR:

"7.03 Forfeited Games (a)  A game may be forfeited to the opposing team when a team: (1)  Fails to appear upon the field, or being upon the field, refuses to start play within five minutes after the umpirein-chief has called “Play” at the appointed hour for beginning the game, unless such delayed appearance is, in the umpire-in-chief’s judgment, unavoidable; (2)  Employs tactics palpably designed to delay or shorten the game;"

It is not used at certain levels where all involved want to go home. But how would shortening the game in your OP ensure a win?

Our lights go off at a certain time. His team took the lead so he wanted to make sure we finished the game before the lights went off. So he just told his runners on base to get off the field. He did not have a discussion with the ump or our head coach. When we asked what he was doing, he said he was conceding the last out (this was already after he took his players off the field). Our league doesn't have a rule for this. But when told, the director said it was wrong and is against a rule. Yet, the team nor the coach was never punished. The kicker was he still had 25 minutes before the lights went off. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

Somebody needs to tell these coaches if they need us to grab and out? Have their batters square to bunt, step on the plate and use the bat to make any contact with the pitch...or have a base coach physically assist a runner.

And remember, if you are working a game that has a "game over time limit and the score reverts back to the last completed inning" rule? Do NOT get sucked into a negotiation about whether the score is reverting back or not, what the time "actually" is, "finishing the game" and your "cowardice" for not doing so. If you are over the time, you are over the time and the game is over. You should be tracking the score as the game is winding down and noting what the score was when you ended the game so that if an admin has a question later, you can refer to your notes and tell them exactly what you had and or put the score and timing in your post-game report. Announce the game is over and leave the field as you normally would...

~Dawg

[MadMax]

In MiLB ST “games”, college scrimmages, high school scrimmages, and showcase baseball (scouting / recruiting events where talent is showing skills, not necessarily winning games), we frequently have “rolled” innings. These coaches will put runners on, pull runners off, or will just end the inning. Example – a pitcher will blow through the first three batters, and the (pitching) coach will say, “Hey! Stay out there! Left-handed batter, let’s see it!”. We (umpires) have 3 Outs… are we supposed to say, “No way, Coach, we’ve got 3 outs, inning’s over.”?? 

Fastest way to be unassigned / uninvited / unrequested back (and yes, some of us are requested because of how we understand and accommodate – without complaining – what they’re trying to accomplish). 

Actual sanctioned games? Not happening. Not even considered. 

Tournament games are a whole different animal. They snarl different. That time limit to them, pitching restrictions, and the lack of a protest (TD is the defacto final arbiter) really make them an organized mess. From the read of the OP, it would be that he didn’t want the score to revert should the inning not be completed on account of the inning ending. There’s nothing against this tactic, just that this isn’t the way to do it – official, unofficial, or otherwise. 

It’s really simple – if you’ve got runners on, just tell them to step off the base and stand there. Get tagged out. It would take an enormously untalented defensive team to overthrow a patsy like that, or worse, Balk it. 🙄 Then, if you’ve got no one on, but Batters to get Out, just have them bunt and/or swing at pitches while their foot is on the plate. 

I’m shocked – genuinely shocked – that here, on this forum no less, that nobody has called “Abandonment”. There’s times, on U-E, it’s used as if it is going out of style, or some kind of “Word of the Day”. 😳 

[CoachPeteC]

After it was all said and done, if all he had to do was tell his batter to swing at the firs 3 pitches no matter where they were. No one would have said a word. That is legal....morally wrong and just an attempt to win the game, instead of letting the playres decide it on the field, regardles of lights going out at a certain time. The bottom line is this. You cannot legally pull your team off the field then tell just scream out (after the players were off the field) "we are conceding our last out because the lights will come on soon" Once you amandon the field for more than 5 minutes, you lose by forfeit. That is the rule. Bottom line, that's cheating. And of course the league does NOTHING, even though the director agreed that what he did was totally illegal. Why. Because it's the "good old boys club". Ripping the coach over the phone does nothing. There needs to be repercussions for flat out cheating. If you want to give them the win....fine. But that coach should be suspended among other things. It is a blatant breaking of the rules. And he got away with it. That to me is deplorable. To admit they cheated and do NOTHING? Beyond shameful. And I got thrown out (I am the owner of the organization) because I was asking the coach to give me the rule that says he can do that. All he said was. "I can do whatever i want". The told me to shut the F-Up, which is an automotic ejection. But I as a specatator got thrown out for arguing. Like I said. "the good old boys club".   The Director told my head coach he wanted to talk to me. I said fine call me any time. And of course....never called. Why? Because he now has the rule right in front of him and he knows by letting that team get away with it, he is now an accomplice to cheating. And he knows I will tell him that.    It's about the KIDS!! There are far too many coaches that just doen't get that.   This is the part of youth baseball that I hate the most. 

[Velho]

22 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Have their batters square to bunt, step on the plate and use the bat to make any contact with the pitch

 

19 hours ago, MadMax said:

Then, if you’ve got no one on, but Batters to get Out, just have them bunt and/or swing at pitches while their foot is on the plate. 

Just for anyone reading this that doesn't know the ruleset differences: in LL the foot can be on the plate as long as it is still in the batters box, i.e. part of the foot is touching the lines of the batter box (which is only 4 inches off the plate in LL).

[aaluck]

On 5/14/2023 at 12:04 PM, CoachPeteC said:

But when told, the director said it was wrong and is against a rule.

Maybe its just me, but Im very confused.  

Did this happen in the bottom of the LAST scheduled inning?  If it did the game was over once they took the lead, assuming they were behind to start the inning--otherwise why have them bat.

If it didn't happen in the bottom of the last scheduled inning why didn't you start a new inning, with 25 minutes left?

What am I missing? 

[beerguy55]

On 5/14/2023 at 4:03 PM, CoachPeteC said:

After it was all said and done, if all he had to do was tell his batter to swing at the firs 3 pitches no matter where they were. No one would have said a word. That is legal....morally wrong and just an attempt to win the game, instead of letting the playres decide it on the field, regardles of lights going out at a certain time.

This is a terrible take.  There is nothing "morally" wrong about this.  The kids would like to have it settled on the field, but the tourney/league has made some asinine rule that impedes this...this forces the coaches to do something to address the limitation put in by the moronic rule.  Make reasonable rules (ie. no new inning after xxx time) then the players can just play.

I'm assuming the rule in question says something like "when the lights come on the game ends, and the score reverts to the end of the last complete inning".  Bad rule - if the home team takes the lead in the bottom of said inning, the score should stand...not revert to the previous inning if the time limit is passed.  The problem is the rule, not the coach.

So, yes, I've had my kids get out on purpose due to some of the silly rules that get put in place in some tournaments.  The fact is, tournament time limit rules require the coach to play to certain strategies.  For example, if the tournament has a "hard stop" rule that ends the game at a specific time AND keeps the score at that time, regardless of which half inning, then it's in your best interests to be the visitor team if you have the choice.

Anyway -  here's the one thing you're not considering - winning games means you get to play more games.  And THAT is what the kids want.  They want to play as many games as they can in a tournament...they want to get past the round robin...then get as far in the bracket as they can...ideally to the final game on Sunday.  That doesn't happen if you lose.  So as a coach, you do what you can (within the rules) to help your team win.  Because winning is fun.

[CoachPeteC]

The league does have a rule for now inning starting after one hour 45. This is part of why taking his team off the field made no sense. He took the lead in an inning that started before that league rule. However, if that inning goes long & the lights go out, the league rule IS, it reverts back to the previous inning. He had 25 minutes left of light time. He was only up by 2 and he decided to grandstand and pull his team off the field. That IS illegal.  

You have to approach the umpire and the other coach to make a formal decision or request. He did not do that. The argument carried for at least 10-15 minutes. He REFUSED to put his team back on the field as instructed. That is a forfeit. I have the rule.

All he had to do was tell his player to swing at 3 pitches or bunt and get thrown out. That's it. And no one would have said a word. 

Let the players decide the fate of the game. There was plenty of time left to finish that innning. He alread had 2 outs with my best pitcher on the mound.  What he did was have the kid bunt then run out on the field and pick up the ball. That is such immature, bush league crap! He did to make point that as he said "I can do whatever I want". He has quite a reputation that proceeds him. This is typical of him. I knwo his organization very well. Why they keep him, I just don't know.  I know kids on that team and they are so frustrated with his antics, his bullying and his incredilble LACK of teaching or doing anything to improve his team.

Be that as it may. He broke rule. But, he could have accomplished what he wanted in a sportsmanshiplike manner. THAT my friend is what is missing with far too many coaches. 

[beerguy55]

5 minutes ago, CoachPeteC said:

The league does have a rule for now inning starting after one hour 45. This is part of why taking his team off the field made no sense. He took the lead in an inning that started before that league rule. However, if that inning goes long & the lights go out, the league rule IS, it reverts back to the previous inning. He had 25 minutes left of light time. He was only up by 2 and he decided to grandstand and pull his team off the field. That IS illegal.  

You have to approach the umpire and the other coach to make a formal decision or request. He did not do that. The argument carried for at least 10-15 minutes. He REFUSED to put his team back on the field as instructed. That is a forfeit. I have the rule.

All he had to do was tell his player to swing at 3 pitches or bunt and get thrown out. That's it. And no one would have said a word. 

Let the players decide the fate of the game. There was plenty of time left to finish that innning. He alread had 2 outs with my best pitcher on the mound.  What he did was have the kid bunt then run out on the field and pick up the ball. That is such immature, bush league crap! He did to make point that as he said "I can do whatever I want". He has quite a reputation that proceeds him. This is typical of him. I knwo his organization very well. Why they keep him, I just don't know.  I know kids on that team and they are so frustrated with his antics, his bullying and his incredilble LACK of teaching or doing anything to improve his team.

Be that as it may. He broke rule. But, he could have accomplished what he wanted in a sportsmanshiplike manner. THAT my friend is what is missing with far too many coaches. 

That's all great, but not a single word in this post is relevant or responsive to what I said, in context to what you said, which was that it was immoral or unethical to have your player get out on purpose to meet time limit rules (to, heaven forbid, try to win the game)  It's a terrible take.