stealing a base

[Guest bill]

blue jays have a runner on second base. the angels pitcher throws to the plate but the ball hits the dirt first and goes into the catchers glove (on the catchers left hand). the catcher puts out his right hand, gesturing to the umpire for another ball (a clean one). the umpire drops a new ball into the angels catchers right hand. at this point, the catcher is in possession of two baseballs (one in his hand and one in his glove) as he has not thrown the scuffed ball off to the side and no time out has been called. if bo bichette attempts to steal 3rd base, (and there is no way he can make it to 3rd base safely as the catcher could throw to 3rd base easily) , what is the call on the field in light of the fact that the catcher has two baseballs?  thanks.  

[Jimurray]

46 minutes ago, Guest bill said:

blue jays have a runner on second base. the angels pitcher throws to the plate but the ball hits the dirt first and goes into the catchers glove (on the catchers left hand). the catcher puts out his right hand, gesturing to the umpire for another ball (a clean one). the umpire drops a new ball into the angels catchers right hand. at this point, the catcher is in possession of two baseballs (one in his hand and one in his glove) as he has not thrown the scuffed ball off to the side and no time out has been called. if bo bichette attempts to steal 3rd base, (and there is no way he can make it to 3rd base safely as the catcher could throw to 3rd base easily) , what is the call on the field in light of the fact that the catcher has two baseballs?  thanks.  

We might never know what the call on the field in MLB would be. Changing balls out is a common relaxed play situation with most umps putting a hand up for time but even if they don't everyone knows the old ball is dead and the new ball is dead.

[MadMax]

On 4/8/2023 at 7:08 PM, Guest bill said:

and no time out has been called. If Bo Bichette attempts to steal 3rd base… 

“and no time out has been called…” - that you see. All it has to be, in that context, is verbal / vocal / audible. Umpires do not have to bellow “TIME!!!!” each and every time the calling of Time is required. Nor do they have to perform a precise, exact, textbook Time / Foul mechanic. The participants’ awareness is all that matters. 

And, in that context (MLB game) and situation, all the participants know what’s coming with a pitch in the dirt, now expectantly and routinely in the possession of the catcher. 

That ball is getting changed out. 

As to “If…” Bo Bichette would attempt to steal, he’d had done it already… and he’d likely not make it. Thus, he wouldn’t. 

[umpstu]

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

“and no time out has been called…” - that you see. All it has to be, in that context, is verbal / vocal / audible. Umpires do not have to bellow “TIME!!!!” each and every time the calling of Time is required. Nor do they have to perform a precise, exact, textbook Time / Foul mechanic. The participants’ awareness is all that matters. 

And, in that context (MLB game) and situation, all the participants know what’s coming with a pitch in the dirt, now expectantly and routinely in the possession of the catcher. 

That ball is getting changed out. 

As to “If…” Bo Bichette would attempt to steal, he’d had done it already… and he’d likely not make it. Thus, he wouldn’t. 

And there's no way that 4 MLB umpires would let that steal attempt occur in that situation.

[Guest Jillybean]

ok, thanks.

[Senor Azul]

In an MLB game played on August 5, 2014, between the Reds and Indians, there was a play involving an extra ball on the field—the umpires kept the ball live:

With none out and two on (R1, R3), B1 hit a double to F9, who threw to F4 to F6 as a ball from the defensive bullpen flew onto the field near F4. F6 threw to F5 as R1 dove back to third and was tagged out.

OBR Rule 5.01(b) states that after the umpire calls "Play" and until the umpire calls "Time," or until for legal cause (e.g., hit batsman, umpire or offensive interference, foul ball, etc.), the ball is alive. Rule 5.12 lists several additional opportunities to call "Time," including weather/darkness, light failure, an accident, mound visit, examination of baseball, fielder falls out of play, and the umpire orders a person removed.

Rule 5.12(b)(8) states, "Except in the cases stated in paragraphs (2) and (3)(A) of this rule, no umpire shall call 'Time' while a play is in progress." According to these rules, the umpire should not kill the ball simply because an extra ball flies onto the field. The circumstance of an extra ball on the field is not listed as an opportunity to stop play.

[Senor Azul]

Perhaps the most famous (probably because it involved two future HOFers) extra ball on the field incident took place on June 30, 1959 at Wrigley Field. 

Stan Musial took a ball four pitch that got away from the catcher and went all the way to the backstop of Wrigley. Seeing the ball got away Musial started running to first base. The pitcher and the catcher immediately started to argue with the HP umpire Vic Delmore that the reason the ball got away was that the pitch hit Musial's check swing. During the course of the argument Delmore handed a second ball to the catcher. The catcher sees that Musial is on his way to second and overthrows second base with the second ball going into center field. Musial saw the overthrow and started for third base. While all this was happening the third baseman ran in and picked up the first live ball and threw it to the shortstop Ernie Banks who applied a tag on Musial and he was called out. That out was upheld by the umpires after lengthy discussion.

Umpire Delmore was let go after the season ended.

[Senor Azul]

The NCAA code actually has a rule that covers the extra ball on the field situation and FED now has a case play that addresses this question:

2019-2020 NCAA Rule 6 Dead Ball—Play Suspended

SECTION 5. Time shall be called by the umpire and play is suspended when:

c. An unusual circumstance interferes with the normal progress of the game, such as any crowd action, animal, ball, or other object on the field (see 6-4-a PENALTY);

6-4a PENALTY—The ball is dead at the moment of interference and the umpire shall impose such penalties as to nullify the act of interference;

2018 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 5: With one out and a runner on third base, the defense is warming up a pitcher in its bullpen, which is located inside the fence in live-ball territory along the left-field fence. A ball from the bullpen gets past the bullpen catcher and goes to the fence to the left of the catcher. Meanwhile, the pitcher throws a wild pitch that gets past the catcher and goes to the fence to the right of the catcher. The catcher retreats to the fence, picks up the bullpen ball and throws it to the pitcher covering the plate for an apparent out on the runner advancing home. RULING: The runner is safe. Only the game ball can be used to record an out. (1-3-1)

[The Man in Blue]

I'll say it again, it's good to have you back @Senor Azul ...

I hadn't read this thread, but actually had a "ball on the field" play earlier this week in a varsity softball game.

Bottom of the 1st inning, R1 (outs don't matter).  B4 jacks one that is a no-doubter well past the left field fence.  I am BU and give it a quick glance and tell it is gone.  I then turn to check my runner and see F4 picking up a ball and tossing it back to the visiting team dugout on the first base line.  PU signals the homerun and I'm watching base touches ... and here comes the visiting coach screaming and yelling, "You have to take that off the board, there was a ball on the field!"

No coach, no we don't.  After all the touches, I went to him and explained it did not affect the play, so there is no reason for us to even consider that.  He continues to carry on and I humor him ... "Where did the ball come from coach?"  (Answer: his side of the field.) 

He starts to object saying it wasn't his fans or players (and it actually wasn't, it was a guy with mental impairments riding his bike in the parking lot and trying to return a foul ball) ... but I ask him, "Should a team just have their fans throw one out every time my pitcher gives one up then?"  Then he launches into the "what-ifs" ... I finally had to be blunt to shut him down: "Coach, there may be a times when we would kill that, but right now I see a coach trying to get a home run back the cheap way."  End of discussion.

The next half-inning, the first base coach (who I know) asks, "What if it had been hit to the first baseman?"  I agreed, if it is impacting a play or safety, we are going to kill it and try to sort it out.  If it has nothing to do with anything, play on.  

We usually see this in tournaments, and I cannot think of a time when I ever saw a live play killed.  Between pitches, yeah, we are going to clear it out.